[live] how to deal with people constantly raising in 1-2 NL?

Zel

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Hi,

I am new to the casino and the one thing that bothers me, is I play really tight.. but the hands I DO play, I'll make a lowish bet because my chip size isn't that large, and then the other guys will bet so much it will make me question if I should carry on or not. I question myself if I have the best hand, if I should just all in and try and force them off or what I should do. My last time I had been, I would bet like $5-15 and they'd just raise to like $40.. and I kept just folding being a sucker. I have no idea how to deal with it.

Also, in a $50-$200 buyin game.. how much should I be buying in? I was thinking just $50 and just prepare to go all in when I have a killer hand so I dont feel pressured to go all in since going all in won't be as much of a deal and the other people at the table won't be able to just scare me off the pot.

Some insight would be nice, thanks!
 
smallfrie

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I am not a cash game player but that is because I don't like to play cash games not because I don't know how.

I can tell by your post that you should do a LOT of study on everything before going back to the casino . I would recommend taking some money and getting some cash game study material. I have only read a few things in print on cash games so I will only recommend something I have experience with, so having said that I would recommend reading Bill "AintNoLimit" Hubbard's ANLpoker 40 Vital Essays. And if you are serious about cash games maybe even get some coaching sessions. If you do this you will be way more knowledgeable than most players playing at 1-2 and 2-5 in a live cash game setting. GL :)
 
PapaC

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Hi Zel and welcome to Cardschat. You are in the right place to get some good advice that should answer your questions. As for me, I have no experience playing at that level either live or online.But I may be able to help you with some of the other problems. The first thing I see is that you are not real sure about yourself or the hands you try to play and you are losing your money without a fight. Sometimes you have to make a stand no matter if you win or lose. You can't play scared money if you want to win. When you get raised, and you believe you have a winning hand, you need to fire back at those players and get some respect. Right now they have you figured out and they know a good raise will run you off your hand

But I think the biggest problem you are having is the fact that you are playing at a level that you don't have the experience to be playing. My question is why are you doing that to yourself. Why don't you go down and find the level you can hold you own at? Another thing I see is that you don't have the confidence in yourself that you need to have if you are going to play poker at all. I think you already know this stuff but you need somebody to tell you. Well I'm not the one to sugar coat the things I say to a player when they are the one who asked for the help. My friend I don't know how much money you have to spend on playing poker, but one thing is for sure. If you don't have a truck load of it, and you keep playing at that level and playing the way you now play, it won't be long before you throw it all away just to play a GAME

I'm going to say this one last thing and then you need to deciede what is best for you and your health for that matter. The stress that comes with the game can turn you inside out in a short time. Just put aside whatever it is that makes you want to play at that level, then pack it up and go play at 2 and 4 or even lower You probably will be glad you did. I hope some of this helps. I can really feel your pain and confusion
 
Zel

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Hi Zel and welcome to Cardschat. You are in the right place to get some good advice that should answer your questions. As for me, I have no experience playing at that level either live or online.But I may be able to help you with some of the other problems. The first thing I see is that you are not real sure about yourself or the hands you try to play and you are losing your money without a fight. Sometimes you have to make a stand no matter if you win or lose. You can't play scared money if you want to win. When you get raised, and you believe you have a winning hand, you need to fire back at those players and get some respect. Right now they have you figured out and they know a good raise will run you off your hand

But I think the biggest problem you are having is the fact that you are playing at a level that you don't have the experience to be playing. My question is why are you doing that to yourself. Why don't you go down and find the level you can hold you own at? Another thing I see is that you don't have the confidence in yourself that you need to have if you are going to play poker at all. I think you already know this stuff but you need somebody to tell you. Well I'm not the one to sugar coat the things I say to a player when they are the one who asked for the help. My friend I don't know how much money you have to spend on playing poker, but one thing is for sure. If you don't have a truck load of it, and you keep playing at that level and playing the way you now play, it won't be long before you throw it all away just to play a GAME

I'm going to say this one last thing and then you need to deciede what is best for you and your health for that matter. The stress that comes with the game can turn you inside out in a short time. Just put aside whatever it is that makes you want to play at that level, then pack it up and go play at 2 and 4 or even lower You probably will be glad you did. I hope some of this helps. I can really feel your pain and confusion

Thanks for the post. I definitely know what you're trying to say. First off, I want to include that I am not looking to make a living or truckloads of money, I want to be able to sit down and play a solid game with respect from the people at the table, and you know, be able to take some wins.

I think you're right saying I needed someone to tell me what I already know. I know I play scared money, but I need to be told I need to hold my own, which is why I think playing with the minimum $50 buy-in I'll be able to play adamantly and worry about the game more than losing my $200 buy-in.

When I head to play this week, I am not going to be intimidated and play my game, not theirs, and not play scared money. My biggest concern was if I ever bet big, I could end up just losing the pot from the turn/river and it felt like playing I could never make it to the end without being forced all in. I think playing with just $50 buyin at a time I'll be able to be more lax and confident with my play, and be much more willing to go through with the hands I have confidence beginning with.

Thanks for the post.

EDIT: Also, there isn't a level lower than 1-2 NL I can go is there? gambling isn't insane in Australia like Vegas or somewhere. I don't know.. I thought I was at the lowest tier.
 
vinnie

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You are playing no limit, you should be willing to get your stack into the middle when you likely have the best of it. You might lose. And that would mean losing your whole stack. Welcome to the reality of playing a gambling game. There's no sure thing. And, you will get stacked sometimes. It happens. If you are never getting stacked, you aren't playing right.

Don't buy in short. This is $1/$2 live where the rake is high but the horrible play for 100xbb+ stacks more than compensates for it. You want to be deep. People are going to put in 100xbb stacks with 5 outs (or less), and you want to be ready and able to take advantage of it. Sometimes they will hit their outs, but that is why they keep coming back.

Go with several full buy-ins, know that you might lose one or two. Be willing to get in with the best of it and don't be afraid to call bets, even big bets, with good hands and play the flop according to your hand strength and the stack to pot ratio that you end up with. If you are calling a $40 raise, the pot will be large enough that you are getting it in with top pair or better... And you should have that pretty often as tightly as you claim to play.
 
Zel

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You are playing no limit, you should be willing to get your stack into the middle when you likely have the best of it. You might lose. And that would mean losing your whole stack. Welcome to the reality of playing a gambling game. There's no sure thing. And, you will get stacked sometimes. It happens. If you are never getting stacked, you aren't playing right.

Don't buy in short. This is $1/$2 live where the rake is high but the horrible play for 100xbb+ stacks more than compensates for it. You want to be deep. People are going to put in 100xbb stacks with 5 outs (or less), and you want to be ready and able to take advantage of it. Sometimes they will hit their outs, but that is why they keep coming back.

Go with several full buy-ins, know that you might lose one or two. Be willing to get in with the best of it and don't be afraid to call bets, even big bets, with good hands and play the flop according to your hand strength and the stack to pot ratio that you end up with. If you are calling a $40 raise, the pot will be large enough that you are getting it in with top pair or better... And you should have that pretty often as tightly as you claim to play.

I only have like $200 to play with.. so it'd be better for me to buy in $200 once rather than $50 four times?
 
vinnie

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EDIT: Also, there isn't a level lower than 1-2 NL I can go is there? Gambling isn't insane in Australia like Vegas or somewhere. I don't know.. I thought I was at the lowest tier.

Generally, $1/$2 NL is the lowest live game available in the US in most locations. It is as low as it gets. Some places offer $1/$1, but that's rare. The only way to go lower would be to play online or find a home/private game that plays lower. We typically spread 5c/5c up 25c/25c in my home games (yes, we prefer flat blinds for various reasons) so the kids can afford to play and no one gets too hurt. It's all for fun anyway.

It is also a huge mistake to compare $1/$2 NL live with $1/$2 NL online (usually called $200NL). They are not even in the same league. I can destroy a $1/$2 NL live table, and I would probably get eaten alive at $200NL. The stakes online do not compare. The live games are closer to $0.05/$0.10 NL online (10NL). Although, even those are often tighter and tougher than the live games. People play live games to play cards, not sit around and wait for huge hands. They committed some amount of time to get there and play, they're only playing that one table, and they intend to actually play cards and not just fold. It is common to see tables where 7 out of 10 people were seeing nearly every flop, even with 5xbb raises pre-flop. That's rare even at the lowest stakes online.

The live games are a ton of fun. Enjoy them. Don't take them too seriously or look like you're there to only play the nuts (even if you are). Talk to the people. Poker is a social game, be social. Seriously, if you can't afford to lose a couple full buy-ins, gracefully, then you might not be rolled to play live.
 
A

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I only have like $200 to play with.. so it'd be better for me to buy in $200 once rather than $50 four times?

You shouldn't be playing. You're nowhere near good enough to even consider being able to make money with one buy-in. Even great players know it's a pure gamble to attempt this.

I used to think extremely similar to you when I started. It's a longer road than you'd think to get to the point where you'd be able to read a poker table properly. I still play 1/2 to this day. There are absolutely people sitting at your table who know exactly how you're playing and that you're not often willing to put all the money in.

You need lessons, or a coach. Given that you only have a small amount to spare to even play, I'd suggest you watch online strategy videos. Or invest it in some sort of training program. You also need about a grand to even think about 1/2 at your skill level. This is probably the most important point. You just plain need more money.

Poker is a strategy game, and quite frankly by the time you know who's who at your table and how they play, you'll be broke. You don't have the chips to spare to acquire that knowledge. It's why you keep folding, right? Why don't you wait until you have enough money to be able to play the game for what it is? I think you already understand that this is the problem.
 
vinnie

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You shouldn't be playing. You're nowhere near good enough to even consider being able to make money with one buy-in. Even great players know it's a pure gamble to attempt this.

I used to think extremely similar to you when I started. It's a longer road than you'd think to get to the point where you'd be able to read a poker table properly. I still play 1/2 to this day. There are absolutely people sitting at your table who know exactly how you're playing and that you're not often willing to put all the money in.

You need lessons, or a coach. Given that you only have a small amount to spare to even play, I'd suggest you watch online strategy videos. Or invest it in some sort of training program. You also need about a grand to even think about 1/2 at your skill level. This is probably the most important point. You just plain need more money.

Poker is a strategy game, and quite frankly by the time you know who's who at your table and how they play, you'll be broke. You don't have the chips to spare to acquire that knowledge. It's why you keep folding, right? Why don't you wait until you have enough money to be able to play the game for what it is? I think you already understand that this is the problem.

I hate to agree with this, because it's so negative, but it's true. I don't even set foot in my local card room without $800-$1,000 to play $1/$2 NL. I usually don't need it all, but I want to be able to pop another buy-in on the table if I get unlucky. I might see going with $500-$600, maybe $400, but that's cutting it close.

I don't think you need to be worried, too much, about being out-classed at these tables. There might be a couple players who are decent/okay, but there will be plenty of poor ones.

Can you get some money on one of the online sites and build experience that way? At the same time, you could put aside a little each week/month so you'll have a few bullets next time you go play live.

Scared money will get eaten alive at live play. You're a sure loser playing like that. You will get chipped away until you suddenly find yourself with almost nothing left and no chance. Weak players who won't commit are the best money makers for me. I just bet enough to put them all-in and know they won't come along without the nuts. I also like when they're up, then I only need to bet enough that they'll be losing. Like, they're up $30 over their initial buy-in, I can bet $40 and get way more folds than I should because they are afraid of going from "winner" to "loser" and play too tightly. I don't even care about my cards when someone is playing like this. All I care about is being in the hand alone with them, so I don't run into a real hand or have to deal with someone who is going to stick around and cause me to show up with a real hand.

Edit: What is the rake like in your games (if you know)? This determines the minimum reasonable buy-in. The higher the rake, the deeper you prefer to be. My local room is 10% up to $5 plus a $1-$2 promo-drop (bad beat and such, it's higher when they have high-hand running). And, you'll be tipping the dealer $1-$2 (usually). So, you might be seeing $9 leave the pot when you win at my local room. With a $50 stack, that's a large percentage of your profit. Some places are worse. I have read of rooms in AUS that are 10% up to $10 or even $15 dollars. That calls even more for the full stacks of $200, and I don't even like playing short stacked with my rake structure.
 
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PapaC

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That's real good advice vinnie. Our friend here needs a lot of it.

Zel I'm glad to hear you are going to make some changes that will make your game what you want it to be. Takes a lot of work but when you see it's helping to make things work like you want, then you will see that every minute you put into learning will be well worth what ever time you put into it. And this is serious. You have to get into learning with every thing you got if you are going to play poker regularly.Or you can sit back and do nothing and watch others that do take time learning pass you by.

Ok I see that you are already having some doubts. Do like vinnie said. Buy into the game with the max. If you don't you are a good target, because you are short stacked and you know the bigger stacks are going to try bullying you because of that
Always go into a game with 100 BBs Here's something else. You do not go into any game thinking about losing. You are there to win and that has to be your mind set throughout the game. If you can't do that, you might as well go to the table and put your money in the middle and let who ever wins the first hand wins your money too. Because that's what you will be doing but it just takes more time.

This is something you will need to use a lot of times during the game. If you make a bet pre-flop with a good hand and you see that you will be first to act after the flop, you need to make a continueation bet. It's no secert that the first player into the pot wins the pot more times than not. If you do make something on the flop make you bet look like a value bet or if you need to move some players out to make your hand stronger then make a bigger bet. This stuff is called skill and you need to start putting together the things you need to enhanse your skill. Luck is good and a real thing and you should get it into your head that you are a lucky player. It works, try it if you don't believe me.

This is my last word for now. When you make a bet make it believeable. You have to make aggresive moves and make the other players think twice before they call. Try your best to never let another player see cards for free

My friend I'm done now except for one last thing. Zel every thing I'm telling you has come from right here,with no other help. And you need to spend all the time you can on here getting all the advice you can. There are some players here that know way more than me and their advice can be taken to the tables and it works, CC and all the members here have changes my whole life. So when you have time post a question or two you need answers for, and keep doing it until advice is running out of your ears GL to you

I have one more word for you. Get to know AshTheGreat, and believe and use his advice. He has the experience to help you along the way. I know he says you are out of your league at even 1 and 2 but if you are going to play with or without his help, he will give it all he's got and if you hang yourself he told you so. But still don't take any negatives to the game ok GL
 
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Zel

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Thanks PapaC and Vinnie.

In all honesty, I've played a bunch online, since I was like 16 (just went under parents name for a pokerstars account, oops if I am not allowed to say this). I know the game, and I am fine at 0.05/0.10 10NL, and slightly bigger tables online. Like i've played a lot online, but it's just a chore. I want to have fun in person, it's more mind games, which is what I like.

My first time at the casino I played scared for like 1 hour and lost like $50, and ended up holding my ground a tad okay. I made this post to just see what people could say to me if I ran the same train of thought, when I actually already had it figured out in my head. I have $400 to play with when I go to the casino, just it sounds nice saying $200. I think the playing to win rather than playing and worried about losing is a really good tip.

The game is actually $1-$3 with commission 10% capped at $15 with a $50-$200 buy-in (15 seconds to act). Bad right?

I might just go for the experience and to hold my own. I'm not looking to clean up everyone, I just want to have some people beat and have some fun.
 
vinnie

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Thanks PapaC and Vinnie.

In all honesty, I've played a bunch online, since I was like 16 (just went under parents name for a PokerStars account, oops if I am not allowed to say this). I know the game, and I am fine at 0.05/0.10 10NL, and slightly bigger tables online. Like i've played a lot online, but it's just a chore. I want to have fun in person, it's more mind games, which is what I like.

My first time at the casino I played scared for like 1 hour and lost like $50, and ended up holding my ground a tad okay. I made this post to just see what people could say to me if I ran the same train of thought, when I actually already had it figured out in my head. I have $400 to play with when I go to the casino, just it sounds nice saying $200. I think the playing to win rather than playing and worried about losing is a really good tip.

The game is actually $1-$3 with commission 10% capped at $15 with a $50-$200 buy-in (15 seconds to act). Bad right?

I might just go for the experience and to hold my own. I'm not looking to clean up everyone, I just want to have some people beat and have some fun.

If you can win at 5c/10c full-ring online (or 6-max if you know how to tighten up appropriately), you have the skills to crush $1/$3 NL live. Honestly, you will beat those games up if you play right.

That rake with the $200 buy-in (67xbb) is brutal. You really, really don't want to be playing short-stacked with that. Consider, if you get $50 in against one other player, you only profit $35 (almost 1/3 of your profits went to rake--30%). If you get $200 in against him, you get $185 in profit... a meager 7.5% of your profits went to rake in that case. Unless your edge is always greater than 30%, you're going to get eaten up with the shorter stacks.

Of course, most of these games will have multi-way pots all-in. But, your edge in those will usually be thinner. So, you want to be playing BIG pots whenever you can.

Don't worry about losing. I'm an over-all winning player live and I have had some sick days and nights at those tables. It happens to everyone. You'll get QQ in for stacks against the drunk with 8-4 offsuit... and the flop comes 8-8-4. That's the way it goes. But, in the long run, you'll be fine. Don't be afraid to play right because you might lose. If you can beat 10nl, you know how to play right.
 
A

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Thanks PapaC and Vinnie.

In all honesty, I've played a bunch online, since I was like 16 (just went under parents name for a PokerStars account, oops if I am not allowed to say this). I know the game, and I am fine at 0.05/0.10 10NL, and slightly bigger tables online. Like i've played a lot online, but it's just a chore. I want to have fun in person, it's more mind games, which is what I like.

My first time at the casino I played scared for like 1 hour and lost like $50, and ended up holding my ground a tad okay. I made this post to just see what people could say to me if I ran the same train of thought, when I actually already had it figured out in my head. I have $400 to play with when I go to the casino, just it sounds nice saying $200. I think the playing to win rather than playing and worried about losing is a really good tip.

The game is actually $1-$3 with commission 10% capped at $15 with a $50-$200 buy-in (15 seconds to act). Bad right?

I might just go for the experience and to hold my own. I'm not looking to clean up everyone, I just want to have some people beat and have some fun.

Oh, wow. If you have the skills to come ahead at .05/.10 online, I take back what I said earlier. You're more than qualified for live 1/2 or 1/3 NL games. You wouldn't believe the skill disparity from online to live. I've fought harder pots for 70 cents than for $70. I'm unsure what your overall strategy is, but most players at low limit live tables are going to play way looser than people who play online. I'm not sure why that is, but you can and usually should size preflop raises larger than you ever would online (like 5x-8x/$15-$25) and value bet boards your hand hits well to your heart's content.

Some people live tend to call very loose, as I'm sure you've witnessed already. I'd advise heavily against most types of bluffing until much later when you have a very value oriented table image established. Even then, you're liable to get called by anybody on tilt. Maybe a c-bet against another tight player, but that's about it. Just play some solid poker.

Two buy-ins is doable, just be prepared to play it as other people have said. Oh, and even if you flop two pair and the pot is $40, just bet $35ish and take it. You definitely want to charge people who make calling mistakes with draws top dollar. They WILL continue making these mistakes anyway, but you want to announce you're the kind of player who does this to the table, so at least some of them think twice about calling your bets with speculative hands.

Oh, and P.S. Don't be afraid to 3-bet all in with Aces if that's your style. You will get calls from hands like AQ. It's that kind of poker. Lol
 
Zel

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Oh, wow. If you have the skills to come ahead at .05/.10 online, I take back what I said earlier. You're more than qualified for live 1/2 or 1/3 NL games. You wouldn't believe the skill disparity from online to live. I've fought harder pots for 70 cents than for $70. I'm unsure what your overall strategy is, but most players at low limit live tables are going to play way looser than people who play online. I'm not sure why that is, but you can and usually should size preflop raises larger than you ever would online (like 5x-8x/$15-$25) and value bet boards your hand hits well to your heart's content.

Some people live tend to call very loose, as I'm sure you've witnessed already. I'd advise heavily against most types of bluffing until much later when you have a very value oriented table image established. Even then, you're liable to get called by anybody on tilt. Maybe a c-bet against another tight player, but that's about it. Just play some solid poker.

Two buy-ins is doable, just be prepared to play it as other people have said. Oh, and even if you flop two pair and the pot is $40, just bet $35ish and take it. You definitely want to charge people who make calling mistakes with draws top dollar. They WILL continue making these mistakes anyway, but you want to announce you're the kind of player who does this to the table, so at least some of them think twice about calling your bets with speculative hands.

Oh, and P.S. Don't be afraid to 3-bet all in with Aces if that's your style. You will get calls from hands like AQ. It's that kind of poker. Lol

Thanks for the post. It's helpful. :)
 
PapaC

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I'm sorry vinnie and AshTheGreat, but I have to disagree that if you can win at 10nl online, then you can win at $1/$3 live. This is the reason. I just seen your interduction yesterday Zel, And now I believe that you don't have the experience to play $200nl. This is what you said

I have only played live once so far, I lost $100 but I realised the 2 mistakes I made the second I made them, and I just got unlucky when I pushed for an all in preflop (Had KK, ended up being beat by JJ)

You have only played once so far. And that's the reason the other players can run you off of the hands you believe are winners. Them old guys can spot a new player from a mile away, and they will continue to raise when you are in a hand. Therefore, if you are going to play anyway, you need to play only the top hands, and you need to play them aggresively. pre-flop, and post-flop. Here is why. They know you are new and they believe you will fold to a big raise, and that is what you want. This is call trap playing. Use it when ever you can. I left out the how to play to set traps. You have a great hand and you want to get the most out of it, so when you have that great hand and you are in a good position. You make like a 3 bet believing you will be raised, and when it gets back to you, that is when you fire back at the raiser but not all in, because you need it to look like you want a call or even and all in, so if you get called, you will need chips to shove all in the next round..

This is sound advice, and I have to agree fully. And if you are going to spend some time learning, it may be good for you should take smallfire's advice. But you need to spend a lot of time right here. I have never used anything else, but others learn from those books.

Here is smallfrie, advice. I know you have read it but you can forget it,

I can tell by your post that you should do a LOT of study on everything before going back to the casino

I know you will go play anyway, because you are so excited you can't stand it. LOL I can understand, because I've been there.

If what you said here is true, I have an idea that may help you. This is what you said.


In all honesty, I've played a bunch online, since I was like 16,

My advice to you , is to make you a $50 deposit at poker stars, and play a month before going back to playing live. You really need the experience of playing like you plan to play live. At some point you will have to do whatever it take to better you game, and that means taking the advice you get here, and go by it without question. That's what I did. Matter of fact, I left behind whatever I THOUGHT I knew and done whatever I was told without question, and that's the best thing I've ever done if it concerned poker. What I got from all that, was a 100% change in my game, but I really got 2 for 1, since I also learned many things that have bettered my life. I started to say I got a 100% change in my life. That would not be true. GL to you
 
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Zel

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I'm sorry vinnie and AshTheGreat, but I have to disagree that if you can win at 10nl online, then you can win at $1/$3 live. This is the reason. I just seen your interduction yesterday Zel, And now I believe that you don't have the experience to play $200nl. This is what you said

I have only played live once so far, I lost $100 but I realised the 2 mistakes I made the second I made them, and I just got unlucky when I pushed for an all in preflop (Had KK, ended up being beat by JJ)

You have only played once so far. And that's the reason the other players can run you off of the hands you believe are winners. Them old guys can spot a new player from a mile away, and they will continue to raise when you are in a hand. Therefore, if you are going to play anyway, you need to play only the top hands, and you need to play them aggresively. pre-flop, and post-flop. Here is why. They know you are new and they believe you will fold to a big raise, and that is what you want. This is call trap playing. Use it when ever you can

This is sound advice, and I have to agree fully. And if you are going to spend some time learning, it may be good for you should take smallfire's advice. But you need to spend a lot of time right here. I have never used anything else, but others learn from those books.

Here is smallfrie, advice. I know you have read it but you can forget it,

I can tell by your post that you should do a LOT of study on everything before going back to the casino

I know you will go play anyway, because you are so excited you can't stand it. LOL I can understand, because I've been there.

If what you said here is true, I have an idea that may help you. This is what you said.


In all honesty, I've played a bunch online, since I was like 16,

My advice to you , is to make you a $50 deposit at Poker Stars, and play a month before going back to playing live. You really need the experience of playing like you plan to play live. At some point you will have to do whatever it take to better you game, and that means taking the advice you get here, and go by it without question. That's what I did. Matter of fact, I left behind whatever I THOUGHT I knew and done whatever I was told without question, and that's the best thing I've ever done if it concerned poker. What I got from all that, was a 100% change in my game, but I really got 2 for 1, since I also learned many things that have bettered my life. I started to say I got a 100% change in my life. That would not be true. GL to you

Not going to lie, I've been thinking about it all a lot. I think I am not going to play live for now, I am going to go watch again for a few hours, see how they treat other new players, see how they treat eachother.

You honestly think throwing $50 on PokerStars and playing how I'd play live is a good idea? What's that, $50 max buyin I should jump in to? I don't mind doing that. All I hear is how live is different to online, but if you think and others think it will strengthen my live game whilst I build a bankroll for live, I'll do it.

Yeah, heading to the casino today with my friend. **** it, I won't play at all or I'll just put $50 in and push all in preflop if I have AA/KK, yolo.
 
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Finger5

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Hi, Did you start playing tournies? Thats how i started and still mainly play them. The first time i played cash i got crucified and that was at micro stakes 0.01/0.02. the 2 are very different beasts and require very different techniques. I think buying in with the minimum is a clear indication and we all appreciate the science of 'reads'.Generally i find in tourney play you have to consider the long game, i.e. the other 4+hours you have to play, with cash its all about this hand now, others don't matter. Starting with a small stack singles you out as a target IMHO. Perhaps find a different site that does have smaller stakes and buy-in at the same amount - 50 but with a deeper stack and i think that will offer an improved starting advantage and as suggested read up on the specific topic, the money will be better served. GL
 
PapaC

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No I'm not saying you should play 50nl online, because if $50 is all you have, it will be the same. You will worry about losing all of it, which I have already said that you have to get the worry out of your head. Believe in yourself. Make moves you have never made. We can give you some to try.What the others said, if you can win at 10nl you can win at $1/$3 live, so start at 10nl and see what happens. But even if you have good results, don't even think about moving up to 25nl, because early good results do not mean shit, because things go one way and then goes another way. Matter of fact, you will need to learn to see when you start going into a downswing and when you do, back out and go down to 5nl so you will lose less money. Just take your time Vel. And stay focused GL to you
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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Not going to lie, I've been thinking about it all a lot. I think I am not going to play live for now, I am going to go watch again for a few hours, see how they treat other new players, see how they treat eachother.

You honestly think throwing $50 on PokerStars and playing how I'd play live is a good idea? What's that, $50 max buyin I should jump in to? I don't mind doing that. All I hear is how live is different to online, but if you think and others think it will strengthen my live game whilst I build a bankroll for live, I'll do it.

Yeah, heading to the casino today with my friend. **** it, I won't play at all or I'll just put $50 in and push all in preflop if I have AA/KK, yolo.


You are thinking about poker all wrong man.

If you are going to play live, with a $200 roll, I think it's extremely unlikely you will ever succeed.

Probably the best thing you could do is deposit online, and run it up. Bankroll management is key, but if you aren't a winning player, no amount of BRM will change the inevitable.

Buying in with $50 works like this.... The only time you enter the pot, is when you are willing to put all your chips in. It's pretty simple. How the chips get in there (whether limp/shipping, raise calling/shoving on any 3b, etc) is going to depend on game dynamics.


If you took the time, and put in the work, ran a live roll up playing online, it would be the best way to get better, learn fundamentals of BRM, gain experience, confidence, etc. When you finally take your roll you've built to the casino, you'll be ready for them.


Edit: You can't just take shots with $50, and hope to make it. You gotta grind, play within your bankroll. If you wanted to play live 1/2 or 1/3, you probably need at least 5k, to have a deep enough roll to avoid ruin during swings.

Another edit: If you don't know how to deal with regs 3-betting you, you probably aren't ready for live play yet. You are paying scared, or you just don't have enough experience to even play profitably against them.
 
Zel

Zel

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You are thinking about poker all wrong man.

If you are going to play live, with a $200 roll, I think it's extremely unlikely you will ever succeed.

Probably the best thing you could do is deposit online, and run it up. Bankroll management is key, but if you aren't a winning player, no amount of BRM will change the inevitable.

Buying in with $50 works like this.... The only time you enter the pot, is when you are willing to put all your chips in. It's pretty simple. How the chips get in there (whether limp/shipping, raise calling/shoving on any 3b, etc) is going to depend on game dynamics.


If you took the time, and put in the work, ran a live roll up playing online, it would be the best way to get better, learn fundamentals of BRM, gain experience, confidence, etc. When you finally take your roll you've built to the casino, you'll be ready for them.


Edit: You can't just take shots with $50, and hope to make it. You gotta grind, play within your bankroll. If you wanted to play live 1/2 or 1/3, you probably need at least 5k, to have a deep enough roll to avoid ruin during swings.

Another edit: If you don't know how to deal with regs 3-betting you, you probably aren't ready for live play yet. You are paying scared, or you just don't have enough experience to even play profitably against them.

Alright, I'll do this. Thanks for the posts everyone.
 
PapaC

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That's great advice Finger5 I had not thought about playing MTTs because we have been talking about playing cash. The only thing about playing low buy in MTTs at Poker Stars is that there will be so many players to join the MTTs that the game will run many hours, and it's easy to get board and lose focus. This is just my opinion because I love the site, but Full Flush would be a great site to start on. My reason is because your $50 deposit will take you along ways, and there are so many freerolls that are well worth playing. I'm not sure if it's the biggest one, but there is a $200 and maybe a $300. that you can cash in and help build your BR and you have your money to buy into small MTTs with not so many players to fight to get to the FT. Also, there are cash games you can play that will be suited for the BR you have. And lastly, I play there and I can give you more advice since I know many players and know the site like the back of my hand. Now I don't want to send you in the wrong direction. I have not had any problems there, but there are other opinions that it's not a good idea to play there. I disagree, but I have to respect those opinions. It's you chose. GL to you agin
 
PapaC

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I'm so glad there are other players replying with great advice. I can't get away from this tread right now because when I post mine, there are new replies with great advice, which makes me want to tell our good friend Zel how much I agree, as I knew you all would. Zel you are getting some great and free advice that I also got when I got active here. Another thing is to work hard toward getting into the freeroll club. The best thing is that you can play Poker Stars and play US sites too, so you will have a truck load of freerolls to play and that gives a chance to start a BR at many sites. Then it may hard to make up your mind which ones to play. LOL I'm done now
 
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Two6JJ

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Sounds like you may be playing with scared money. If you only bought in with the minimum it is possible a fewer more experienced players at the table may be pushing you because they know you don't want to lose your buy in. Study up on your game before you go back or they will do the same thing. GL!
 
smallfrie

smallfrie

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If you are not a poker wonk you are a poker donk that is all are there is to it. There are 2 routes 1.Play millions of hands and study your mistakes at great cost in time and money or 2. Learn from the experience that others have already paid with their time and money.
Look for people who have a proven winning track record that have things in print you can read, coaches, or my favorite twitch streams that you can watch for free. Study winners.
 
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CallmeFloppy

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I agree that the main issue seems to be that you do not have enough money to play this cost of buy in and people are taking advantage you not wanting to lose it.

I also recommend reading Caro's book on tells. Take advantage of odd situations. My favorites are betting into people who are busy such as having a buddy come say hello or ordering a drink. They will almost always fold unless they have me beat even if I make a minimum raise. Avoid players who have meaningful conversations with the dealers. And look for the people that drinking too much or there to "have a good time."
 
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