Double-A
Visionary
Silver Level
If you're asking about it then you probably shouldn't be doing it.
There are situations where it makes sense though. From HOH, Say you've been getting bad cards for an hour and folding and then you get AA UTG. What's going to happen when you raise?
Or, you've got a maniac on your left raising nearly every pot and a sheriff on his left that's opened up and is re-raising the maniac. You can limp hoping to get the shot at the 3bet/4bet.
There are plenty of situations BUT the GOAL (whether limping or raising) is to get as much money in the pot as possible with AA.
RickH2005
Legend
Silver Level
It seems that every time I limp with pkt As, I lose because by limping I'm giveing others the chance to make a hand just by seeing the flop-----true, it could depend on your reads on the table, but I find I'd rather win a little than lose alot by allowing the pot to grow--SO, my experiance has shown it best just to shove all in pre-flop! And go after the big pots with bigger hands down the road! UNLESS, of course, you are working on a squeeze play, or fighting agains one, either way, that's a whole 'nother ball game!
Last edited:
Stu_Ungar
Legend
Silver Level
yeah you shouldnt limp in with a high pair.. just make the usual raise (3xBB +1xBB for each caller before you).
Slow playing is not optimal play. Aces still get beat about 20% of the time so you dont want to let people in too cheaply (especially as you will be unlikely to release them in later streets)
By not raising you are letting any 2 cards see the flop for free. Better to bet out and thin the field. It means that only high cards or high pairs should call so you are unlikely to have any problems if the flop comes out low.
The exception is mentioned in the previous post which is if you havent played a card in a while ... then it becomes inevitable that you have something and ppl will play tighhter against you.
Pros slow play but IMO that isnt because its a more optimal play... its because the other pros have such a good read on eachothers betting startagies and hand ranges that they are forced to play less than optimally in order to discuise hands... not really a problem at low stakes
Slow playing is not optimal play. Aces still get beat about 20% of the time so you dont want to let people in too cheaply (especially as you will be unlikely to release them in later streets)
By not raising you are letting any 2 cards see the flop for free. Better to bet out and thin the field. It means that only high cards or high pairs should call so you are unlikely to have any problems if the flop comes out low.
The exception is mentioned in the previous post which is if you havent played a card in a while ... then it becomes inevitable that you have something and ppl will play tighhter against you.
Pros slow play but IMO that isnt because its a more optimal play... its because the other pros have such a good read on eachothers betting startagies and hand ranges that they are forced to play less than optimally in order to discuise hands... not really a problem at low stakes
Double-A
Visionary
Silver Level
Rick, there's some results oriented thinking in your reply. If we really want to help each other improve our game then we need to focus on good desicions.
Open shoving with AA is the play if there is reasonable chance that you'll get called, but if a call isn't likely then we need to figure out how to get the most money in the middle. Most of the time that'll be a standard raise, 3-4xBB.
RickH2005
Legend
Silver Level
Results oriented? Yea, of course it is. It's my experiance as to what has happened to me in the past! ie. At a CC Carbon FR I was dealt A-A and shoved all in--AND WON! Now, the next time I got them 3-hands latter the same game, I slow played 'em 3Xs BB, and was called by an 8-10! Onna flop was a 9-7-6 giving him the straight and I shove THEN but to late and I'm takin' out of the tourny! So it was my EXPERIANCE that tells me maybe getting as much money inna pot as I can isn't always the best play--what does it matter HOW much is in the pot if you;re not going to win said pot?? THAT'S my point! Its not to get as much money you can get put in the pot, it's what's the best way to win what's there!
Stu_Ungar
Legend
Silver Level
By simply going all in.. what do you gain vs what do you loose?
All in preflop is IMO a pointless raise.
Its so huge compared to the blinds that there really are only a few people who might call.
Those who have you pegged on say AA-QQ and have KK themselves .. ok bad read here but how often does AA and KK come up together??? not all that often.
The second is more dangerous to you. Thats a short stack who sees it as a reasonable risk. He knows you have him beat but is willing to take the chance in order to double up and stay in the tournament.. he knows his hand is weak but takes into account the facthe has an oppertunity to double up.
Those are really the only two players who will call.
Now what if you simply put in a standard raise.. a player cannot put you on AA so easily as there is a wider range of hands you make this raise with.
He knows you have something but if he bets and misses the flop you are a favorate to win .. and win more than the all in would have given you.
But in order to do this you have to improve post flop play (no critasism meand directly to you.. but its hard to let aces go.. even when you do see a possible straight on the board).
This isnt really slow playing though.. ist extracting cash and realising that post flop AA isnt a dead cert.. but its more profitable to play it in a slightly more 'pot limit' way that to go all in.
All in preflop is IMO a pointless raise.
Its so huge compared to the blinds that there really are only a few people who might call.
Those who have you pegged on say AA-QQ and have KK themselves .. ok bad read here but how often does AA and KK come up together??? not all that often.
The second is more dangerous to you. Thats a short stack who sees it as a reasonable risk. He knows you have him beat but is willing to take the chance in order to double up and stay in the tournament.. he knows his hand is weak but takes into account the facthe has an oppertunity to double up.
Those are really the only two players who will call.
Now what if you simply put in a standard raise.. a player cannot put you on AA so easily as there is a wider range of hands you make this raise with.
He knows you have something but if he bets and misses the flop you are a favorate to win .. and win more than the all in would have given you.
But in order to do this you have to improve post flop play (no critasism meand directly to you.. but its hard to let aces go.. even when you do see a possible straight on the board).
This isnt really slow playing though.. ist extracting cash and realising that post flop AA isnt a dead cert.. but its more profitable to play it in a slightly more 'pot limit' way that to go all in.
jstabloak
Enthusiast
Silver Level
In ring games live I prefer most of the time to limp in with high pocket pairs. Just cause if the flop isn't good for them and someone bets like he/she has it and I believe them, that I would fold that pp. But thats just me. Goodluck on the felts.
Double-A
Visionary
Silver Level
What has happened to you in the past doesn't really matter; not if you're talking about how the cards fell anyway. That's random. You might want to do some reading on gamblers fallacies.
Poker isn't about winning the most pots; it's about winning the most money.
You can win 99 $1 pots in a row and lose $100 on the next hand. Sure, you've won 99% of the hands you played but you're still a loser. What if you could have done something differently to make just one of those 99 $1 pots a $2 pot instead?
V
viking999
Visionary
Silver Level
From a cash game perspective, I find two good ways to play under the gun. You can either raise high pairs along with some drawing hands (which may include low pairs), or you can sometimes limp high pairs along with drawing hands. I've done both, and which is better depends on the other players at the table.
If I am in a limp-fest style of game (loose-passive), then I would prefer raising UTG. Big pairs don't play well in family pots, especially out of position. This tends to be the case in micro limit games.
If I am in a game with a mix of limpers and aggressive players, I like to limp big pairs UTG with the intent to reraise. You are likely to generate some more limpers by limping UTG, but there is very often someone in late position who will try to take down the dead money or get heads up in position with a raise. So limp-reraising can allow you to generate a nice pot before taking it down preflop. This happens a lot in low to medium stakes games.
If I am in a game with many aggressive players, I'm looking to either raise up front hoping to get a reraise, or I could limp-call and try to win a big pot off of an aggressive opponent who is likely to continue betting with nothing. I don't like the limp-reraise move here, because that's more of a preflop takedown and there's a lot of value in playing flops with a big pair versus an aggressive player who has the betting lead. I don't play in high stakes games, but I imagine this might work pretty well there. The table composition is sometimes like this at low to medium stakes games, and it can also work if there are two or more extremely aggressive players even if the rest are limpers.
That all being said, there is no table where I use just one approach to big pairs UTG 100% of the time. I never limp AA UTG more than 1/3 of the time I get it, even under ideal conditions. I'm only about half as likely to limp KK UTG as I am AA, and I don't really limp lower pairs UTG unless I'm set farming.
If I am in a limp-fest style of game (loose-passive), then I would prefer raising UTG. Big pairs don't play well in family pots, especially out of position. This tends to be the case in micro limit games.
If I am in a game with a mix of limpers and aggressive players, I like to limp big pairs UTG with the intent to reraise. You are likely to generate some more limpers by limping UTG, but there is very often someone in late position who will try to take down the dead money or get heads up in position with a raise. So limp-reraising can allow you to generate a nice pot before taking it down preflop. This happens a lot in low to medium stakes games.
If I am in a game with many aggressive players, I'm looking to either raise up front hoping to get a reraise, or I could limp-call and try to win a big pot off of an aggressive opponent who is likely to continue betting with nothing. I don't like the limp-reraise move here, because that's more of a preflop takedown and there's a lot of value in playing flops with a big pair versus an aggressive player who has the betting lead. I don't play in high stakes games, but I imagine this might work pretty well there. The table composition is sometimes like this at low to medium stakes games, and it can also work if there are two or more extremely aggressive players even if the rest are limpers.
That all being said, there is no table where I use just one approach to big pairs UTG 100% of the time. I never limp AA UTG more than 1/3 of the time I get it, even under ideal conditions. I'm only about half as likely to limp KK UTG as I am AA, and I don't really limp lower pairs UTG unless I'm set farming.
Last edited:
Steveg1976
...
Silver Level
Under the Gun - First to act after the Blinds Preflop.
T
TurningStar
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Yeah these are usually my conditions for limping rockets as well and it usually works.
Bottom line make sure you have a purpose for doing it...if not just give a standard raise and take it from there
the_urge27
Enthusiast
Silver Level
it just depends if youre under the gun or in early position forget about limping with them-u run the risk of everyone else limping as well and running into a nasty board like 10 10 7 or any paired board for that matter-from the cut off i would suggest a limp-it also depends on table dynamics but limpin with aces is just asking for problems-the_urge27