Limit Game Monthly Discussion - May, LHE

slycbnew

slycbnew

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Total posts
2,876
Chips
0
I noticed that there are several newer members who play LHE, and of course there are some long term members who play - thought it'd be fun to see if a discussion thread goes anywhere.

fwiw, I'm playing some LHE now - the idea was to get better at HORSE, but I'm actually enjoying playing LHE by itself, so...

At any rate, if you have thoughts, discussion topics, questions, whatever related to LHE, share them here!
 
Jurn8

Jurn8

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Total posts
5,348
Chips
0
yo dudes, new to LHE like sly, what's a general number for cbet % IP + OOP?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
Heh, originally I wanted this thread to be a revolving limit game thread, focusing on a new game each month. Not specific to tourney or cash. For the following reasons:

1) The group of players who play limit games usually play more than one.
2) A lot of the softest limit games are mixed games or tournaments (or better yet, mixed game tournaments).
3) Diluting the player base with just cash or just tourney players would make for a thread with less people who post.
4) Focusing on a new game every month will keep the discussion fresh, and teach everyone new skeelz.


But then I was lazy and didn't poast the thread, so here we are :p.

As for the c-betting question, it really depends. C-bet more in large pots, against opponents who fold a lot (31%+) and on drier flop textures obviously. But I think general procedure is to c-bet more playing LHE, since your c-bet has to work less often to be profitable. And that 31% number comes from the fold percentage you need in the smallest possible pot you can play to be profitable (You raise, get called from the BB). So if an opponent folds more than 31% of the time to flop c-bets, he's really exploitable and we should be c-betting close to 90%+.
 
slycbnew

slycbnew

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Total posts
2,876
Chips
0
Thread title can be changed lol, still like that idea a lot - or we can just create a new thread in the Learning forum rather than Cash...
 
Jurn8

Jurn8

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Total posts
5,348
Chips
0
what about cbetting in multiway pots 2/3 way on a really dry flop like K44 and your holding AQ say are we still cbetting 90% here?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
what about cbetting in multiway pots 2/3 way on a really dry flop like K44 and your holding AQ say are we still cbetting 90% here?
Ya cuz like a lot of the time we're holding the best hand.
 
thunder1276

thunder1276

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Total posts
321
Chips
0
What about hand selection. I play 6-Max so should i be be raising from the cutoff with hands like 89s, and A9s to an unopened pot?
 
slycbnew

slycbnew

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Total posts
2,876
Chips
0
pf hand selection is going to be pretty table conditions dependent - there are a bunch of charts available on the internet. A9s is an MP open on every chart I've seen, 98s is marginal.

But table conditions dictate your opening ranges. A 3bet happy btn will lead you to be tighter in CO than you might be otherwise for example. A SB who calls pf alot and folds to cbets alot might lead you to be looser.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
What about hand selection. I play 6-Max so should i be be raising from the cutoff with hands like 89s, and A9s to an unopened pot?
Yeah, and with LHE, big card value is a lot more important than implied odds, especially playing 6-max. So hands like 45s that are solid starting hands playing NLHE can be a bit of a trap hand playing LHE.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
Spew or no spew? Villain is a 52/29/52% over 21 hands, has 3-bet 1 out of 5 times.

Absolute Poker $2.00/$4 Limit Hold'em - 3 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BTN with Q 2
Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls

Flop: (4.5 SB) 6 4 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls

Turn: (4.25 BB) 6 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls

River: (6.25 BB) A (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls

Final Pot: 8.25 BB
Hero shows Q 2
BB shows 7 J
Hero wins 7.875 BB
(Rake: $1.50)
 
Jurn8

Jurn8

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Total posts
5,348
Chips
0
LHE NOOB, but his flop c/r doesnt really make sense unless he has like a weak draw a 3x or 7x type hand as I assume all pairs above 88 3bet pre. I dont think he c/r flop with a 6x all that often, maybe to get value from 3x,7x hands himself plus overcards.
On turn it takes out combos of 6x which also could remove some like 67,68,63s type combos for the straight draw so his hand doesnt really make sesnse by the river and it looks like a bluff. unless his A3,A2,A7 got there but it's a great river card to continue barrelling for him, how ofte do we have to be correct on the call? If we looked at it combo wise there isnt an awful lot he can have on the river IMO but this maybe standard line with a 6 as i m new to lhe lol
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
In 20/20 hindsight though, I think I like a river raise more than a call on the river. There are still a lot of queen highs and king highs that beat me, and I may be able to get a pair of 4's or 22-33 to fold. Since raising costs us 2 bets when we're wrong instead of 1 like calling, I'm not sure how many more combos I have to fold to make it better, but it seems like there'd be a ton of Q8 type hands that he'd fold to a river raise that would play this way.
 
ats777

ats777

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Total posts
116
Chips
0
Great idea for a thread! Don't have much time to read all the posts or offer much substance, but I will be back when I do.

Since coming back to the game in Oct, my main focus has been on LHE so I think this is great to have a place to discuss those concepts specific to it.
 
ats777

ats777

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Total posts
116
Chips
0
Continuing with the c-bet topic... what does everyone think a good c-bet % is for flop and turn?...and how does the c-bet success % play a role in this.

My flop c-bet % runs >90 and turn runs around 80 or a little above. Flop c-bet success rate is about 20. I've read so much about continuing on with the c-bet and staying the agressor, but now I wonder if I've gone overboard and am wasting bets..or whether I am in fact in line with solid play. I've compared to some other players I respect in my database and it seems they're stats are roughly similar, but just figured I'd see what others thought.


(I play full ring btw)
 
aesopdurasic

aesopdurasic

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Total posts
277
Chips
0
OK so i just started to play LHE and have put in roughly 3k in hands but seems that i win some but lose most of it back. To be honest its on hands that turn 2 pair but odd 2 pairs like T3 or J3. It seems that in limit at least the limit i play ppl just completely call u down wit any pair. I have some stats that i have taken screen shots of and was hoping if i could get some help with maybe understanding where my leaks are at. I have uploaded my position stats, overall stats, and my overall graph for LHE. IF u need anymore stats let me kno and i will get screen shots up. I am currently playing .02/.04 limit.
 

Attachments

  • position.jpg
    position.jpg
    23 KB · Views: 115
  • overall.jpg
    overall.jpg
    18.4 KB · Views: 116
  • Graph.jpg
    Graph.jpg
    29 KB · Views: 116
slycbnew

slycbnew

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Total posts
2,876
Chips
0
General thoughts - keep in mind I'm new to the game, so huge grain of salt:

1. You're defending the SB more than you're defending the BB - that's odd - are you completing alot? If so, is it when it's limped to you, or are you completing in raised pots? Are you completing when it's folded to you?

2. You're cold calling too much I think - you should be coming in for a raise, esp in position, more often I think.

3. You're pretty passive postflop. Are you playing a fit or fold strategy? What types of situations are you c/r'ing in? How are you playing good draws? Are you ending up in tons of multiway pots, so that you have to play passively?

4. Why are you folding to 3bets so often? You're priced in to call.

I had to completely re-think postflop play in limit - I swore the first few times someone "sucked out" on me w a rivered gutshot, until I figured out that they actually were receiving the correct odds to call the turn to hit their rivered gutshot. Same for the weird 2pr rivers. I do take notes on people who call without proper odds, I want to make sure I'm value betting the turn all the time against them.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
I am currently playing .02/.04 limit.
Jesus. Can you at least move up to 50c/$1 where the rake isn't absolutely destroying your face?

Also, shouldn't our fold to 3-bet percentage be zero?
 
Jurn8

Jurn8

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Total posts
5,348
Chips
0
In 20/20 hindsight though, I think I like a river raise more than a call on the river. There are still a lot of queen highs and king highs that beat me, and I may be able to get a pair of 4's or 22-33 to fold. Since raising costs us 2 bets when we're wrong instead of 1 like calling, I'm not sure how many more combos I have to fold to make it better, but it seems like there'd be a ton of Q8 type hands that he'd fold to a river raise that would play this way.

Right i thought this at the time with the Qx + Kx hands that beat us and didnt think of raising the river which would fold them out hopefully, cheers dude never came across my mind raising lol

Jesus. Can you at least move up to 50c/$1 where the rake isn't absolutely destroying your face?

Also, shouldn't our fold to 3-bet percentage be zero?

what about the rake at .25/50? obvs the higher the better but is it cool to learn the game there or is .5/1 better?tbh I still think that .5/1 was terrible standard.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
what about the rake at .25/50? obvs the higher the better but is it cool to learn the game there or is .5/1 better?tbh I still think that .5/1 was terrible standard.
At 25c/50c, the rake is capped at 40c (80% of a big bet). At 50c/$1, its capped at 50c (50%) (at least on poker stars anyways). That's a huge difference. And anywhere below $1/$2 the play is going to be really bad.
 
Jurn8

Jurn8

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Total posts
5,348
Chips
0
1/2 where we start seeing some decent players then dude?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
1/2 where we start seeing some decent players then dude?
Hard for me to say about pokerstars, but at UB, they start using props to keep the games going. And there's usually 1-2 of them at every table. So yeah, you start seeing some reggish players pop up, but its still soft.
 
dj11

dj11

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Total posts
23,189
Awards
9
Chips
0
what about cbetting in multiway pots 2/3 way on a really dry flop like K44 and your holding AQ say are we still cbetting 90% here?

Why would this be considered a dry flop?
 
Jurn8

Jurn8

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Total posts
5,348
Chips
0
cant fold out better + our equity is reduced with more villians in the pot, plus drawing hands like gutshots/back door FDs get odds to draw on like K34 say if its multiway.

I think thats why anyway lol
 
dj11

dj11

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Total posts
23,189
Awards
9
Chips
0
My game of choice these days is Stud 8, and I made the mistake of buying into a game way way above my br according to standard brm. Thing is I'm killing (ok, limited sample) these and am wondering what I should do. I look at the limits I was playing, and they now bore me, and I was only a marginally profitable player there.

What should I do?
 
slycbnew

slycbnew

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Total posts
2,876
Chips
0
Try to evaluate why you're a marginal winner at the lower limit, and how well you're running at the higher limit imo. For example, is the rake hitting your winrate so hard at the lower limit that it's eating into your "true" winrate. Be aware of the sample size at the lower limit as well.

Be very careful w playing outside your br (or simply don't do it is the safer reply).
 
Top 10 Games
Top