Learning Poker for 4 months

Hey all,

I played poker some years ago for about a year. On the end of that year I got a lot of bad beats (quads of Kings beaten by quads of Aces, nut flush vs straight flush, .. you get the picture). Back then I did not know much about expected value and so on.. And I did not make the math of how many times I win my hands over and over again. But these bad beats kept on comming, multiple times and not 1/8 or 1/4.

Now I picked up the game again and started to dig a bit deeper into poker. It has going fine, found a lot of valuable strategies, lessons etc here and do understand also more about the game.

Now it comes... Again.. I got A LOT of bad beats. I had some, but it was from fish and I could get easily my money back from them, they just called and called and.. yeah..

But now, the more better players (tight agressive) seem to outrun me also.. I played the last 2 weeks and almost my BR is gone from these bad beats.
Some Examples:

* I flop a full house, do not slowplay and bet the pot on turn and river against a fish. On the river he got a bigger full house. (happend a COUPLE times).

* I invest regularly in pockets when in position. It gives me the implied odds.
Then the funny thing starts: I know I'm only going to hit my set in 15% of the time, but when I call it never seems to hit. Except for the time I do not call, then my set hit the flop. Or when I call, and I make decent bets, they make a straight or have better pockets.

* When I'm in a pot on the button, and I 3bet 3x times his raise with AKs, most of the time there is a low dry flop or no where in my suited. When I have a flop with 2 cards in my suite and fi 10 Q, I do not my my flush or straight and the guy runs away with the pot with the 10 :/

This are just some examples, but I had to ventilate this somewhere.. It happened to me multiple times today, and I do not know how to deal at this moment with it.
It seems that (stupid I know) but pokerstars is against me When I have a playable hand, the flop is complete against me, and when it is in favor, the river just hit me hard

I like playing poker, certainly know when I'm digging deeper into it. I'm not telling I'm the pokerking here, far from, but I do know the basics, I can spot the good players and bad players but.. I'm not interested in investing my money in bad players that hit there cards time after time and I hitting NOTHING. It's not all about hitting, but bluffing is no option either, because they do hit. I'm the pay off man for the fish now, and it should be the other way around.

What do you guys think of my story and have some good tips? Because.. pffff

Extra: I play the 10 NL6 max


Happy New Year!!

I think you should look over your hand history. See where things went wrong in your bad beats. And then change your game accordingly to what you figure out.

its tough to say really.... when the deck is cold it's cold. getting out boated, overset, and outflushed just seems that you're playing hands that are easily overtake by bigger hands that people are playing... but I don't see any histories of what kinds of hands you're playing and etc...

I'm not much of a cash player... mostly stick to MTTs so i can only provide suggestions from my experience there. When i'm playing pocket pairs... i usually only play them from the blinds or the button... as you said they miss the board often and you're out that money... so don't play them until you get a real feel for your table, and see what kind of ranges your opponents are getting in with.

for things like boats getting out boated... if you're playing hands like J10 vs A10 and the flop is J 10 10... the A 10 is staying involved no matter what so when he fills and his A hits on the turn or river... you're setting yourself up for loss you know? stay away from Q 10, 10 9, 8 9, things like that... because people are playing K 10, A 10, A 9, etc... it's just a set up for failure against being outkicked later in the hand.

If you're getting nut flush beat by Straight flush that's just bad luck, and you can't do anything about that.. but if you're getting overflushed by playing 5 7 suited and losing to 10 9 suited... time to stop playing those lower suited connectors and tighten up!

Variance is everything in poker (or so I'm told) haha. Just today for example every single 3 outer or better was hitting against me after I just had a great winning session last night... I had to start losing sometime and it happened. several hours later my hands are holding up more and I'm starting to lose the feeling that the world is against me to succeed in this roller coaster of a game

best of luck to you in the future and don't give up, it's a tricky game, but sometimes you just gotta know when to let the cards fall and get outta the way!

Hey guys,

Thank you already for the replies.
Unfortunately I don't have the hand history.. I had the pokertracker software for trail period.. I know you can c/p from pokerstars itself, but too late now..

I don't play any trouble hands and play quite tight, only for 3% of the time I play hands like 89s beginning from the CO of BU.

UTG is only for me AA, KK, QQ and AKs or AKo and AQs. Sometimes AJs. So very tight!
From the CO i start to play all +A9s, +QJs and o, all pairs from +55, depending on action before me.
On the button all suited aces and ofsuited..

I did some rethinking of my hands and some were played too agressive I think now, but.. still, When you have KK and you raise 3x BB from the UTG-1 and the button calls, flop Q 2 6, I bet 1$, he calls and turn: 9 and now 2 clubs on the board. Now he bets 1$ and I reraise to 3.5$, and he calls so I expect him to go for a flush draw.
And then the river comes and he A fells, not in clubs... then he went all in.. I only had 2.9$ left so.. hmm, I called, I know, very bad, don't throw good money after.. But there you had it, his A.

These are the rivers I got most of the time.. for me frustrating

This is from today a stake lower..

PokerStars Hand #91673243107: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2013/01/02 12:46:41 CET [2013/01/02 6:46:41 ET]
Table 'Alkes II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: ariwald ($2 in chips)
Seat 2: Olelechka ($4.94 in chips)
Seat 3: KazzzMan ($5.87 in chips)
Seat 4: beks32 ($5.14 in chips)
Seat 5: Johnboj ($2.01 in chips)
Seat 6: Hi it i ($5.22 in chips)
Olelechka: posts small blind $0.02
KazzzMan: posts big blind $0.05
Johnboj: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to KazzzMan [Ac 8h]
beks32: folds
Johnboj: checks
Hi it i: folds
ariwald: folds
Olelechka: folds
KazzzMan: checks
*** FLOP *** [7c Qh Ad]
KazzzMan: bets $0.05
Johnboj: calls $0.05
*** TURN *** [7c Qh Ad] [2c]
KazzzMan: bets $0.10
Johnboj: raises $0.20 to $0.30
KazzzMan: calls $0.20
*** RIVER *** [7c Qh Ad 2c] [7h]
KazzzMan: checks
Johnboj: bets $0.75
KazzzMan: calls $0.75
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Johnboj: shows [5c 7d] (three of a kind, Sevens)
KazzzMan: mucks hand
Johnboj collected $2.22 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $2.32 | Rake $0.10
Board [7c Qh Ad 2c 7h]
Seat 1: ariwald (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Olelechka (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: KazzzMan (big blind) mucked [Ac 8h]
Seat 4: beks32 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Johnboj showed [5c 7d] and won ($2.22) with three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 6: Hi it i folded before Flop (didn't bet)


So I expected he had hit a Q.. No bad luck..
This is the story all the time.. I do not want to go the pots too big anymore, because they seem to call and call..

Another one:

PokerStars Hand #91674059322: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2013/01/02 13:13:16 CET [2013/01/02 7:13:16 ET]
Table 'Alkes II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: ariwald ($2.27 in chips)
Seat 3: KazzzMan ($4.86 in chips)
Seat 4: beks32 ($7.99 in chips)
Seat 5: Rumyn192 ($3.72 in chips)
KazzzMan: posts small blind $0.02
beks32: posts big blind $0.05
-Apollogize-: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to KazzzMan [Ah Qd]
Rumyn192: calls $0.05
ariwald: raises $0.15 to $0.20
KazzzMan: calls $0.18
beks32: folds
Rumyn192: calls $0.15
*** FLOP *** [3c Kc Tc]
KazzzMan: checks
Zhanben joins the table at seat #2
Rumyn192: checks
ariwald: bets $0.40
KazzzMan: folds
Rumyn192: folds
Uncalled bet ($0.40) returned to ariwald
ariwald collected $0.62 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.65 | Rake $0.03
Board [3c Kc Tc]
Seat 1: ariwald (button) collected ($0.62)
Seat 3: KazzzMan (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: beks32 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Rumyn192 folded on the Flop

Would it be good for me if I buy Holdem Manager? (the limit one..)
I really want to move on, learn and get better.. I try to put the others on handranges, but I cannot say this now accurate anough I guess..

Will it make me play better or do you guys think I should first continue playing and learn other stuff before this?

And this is again what I mean, I don't flop or hot anything..

Is this wrongly played?

PokerStars Hand #91683701430: Hold'em No Limit (€0.01/€0.02 EUR) - 2013/01/02 17:09:11 CET [2013/01/02 11:09:11 ET]
Table 'Nasl VII' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: scyndaptus (€2.09 in chips)
Seat 2: 2002ter (€1.44 in chips)
Seat 3: Google.inc (€5.82 in chips)
Seat 4: LEEUWARDERR (€1.50 in chips)
Seat 5: KazzzMan (€1.34 in chips)
Seat 6: Alexonsson (€1.43 in chips)
Alexonsson: posts small blind €0.01
scyndaptus: posts big blind €0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to KazzzMan [Qd Ad]
2002ter: folds
Google.inc: folds
LEEUWARDERR: folds
KazzzMan: raises €0.06 to €0.08
Alexonsson: folds
scyndaptus: calls €0.06
*** FLOP *** [7s 2s 3d]
scyndaptus: checks
KazzzMan: bets €0.10
scyndaptus: calls €0.10
*** TURN *** [7s 2s 3d] [2d]
scyndaptus: checks
Google.inc leaves the table
KazzzMan: bets €0.20
scyndaptus: calls €0.20
*** RIVER *** [7s 2s 3d 2d] [3s]
scyndaptus: checks
KazzzMan: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
scyndaptus: shows [6c 7c] (two pair, Sevens and Threes)
KazzzMan: mucks hand
scyndaptus collected €0.74 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot €0.77 | Rake €0.03
Board [7s 2s 3d 2d 3s]
Seat 1: scyndaptus (big blind) showed [6c 7c] and won (€0.74) with two pair, Sevens and Threes
Seat 2: 2002ter folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Google.inc folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: LEEUWARDERR folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: KazzzMan (button) mucked [Qd Ad]
Seat 6: Alexonsson (small blind) folded before Flop

Little update from myself:

Back to basics..
I bought HM2 and went back to the 2NL 6 max tables and.. With success..
I can again win hands, force opponants to fold or call my best hand.

Now trying to keep up this good feeling, playstyle and upgoing BR (2 days of only 2,5h playing and + 5,7$ net profit.
It is a start...
Now trying to costumize and understand HM a bit..

Your A8 hand - terrible bet sizing on the flop. What was purpose? Should have raised pre but that's more forgiveable than that flop bet.
AQ in six-max is worth a 3-bet - but forgiveable - just don't be surprised when you whiff the flop - you will most of the time.

I get the impression you are taking a WAY too micro view of the game. One hands, one days, one weeks, one months result mean very little. To come back a couple days later and say you have it worked out and are back on track... well you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Not to say you haven't made some good adjustments but the inherent nature of the game is variance. You will be up and thinking you have it wired, then you can't understand why you are getting your ass handed to you. This is one of the most difficult adjustments to make. Now that you have HM2 your next goal is to amass several thousand hands for analysis. You are probably not going to want to wait to get to 10k, but at least get 1k to work off of.

Hey Mediablitz,

Thank you very much for your reply.
I totally agree with you. I've played in the last 4 months about 3,5k hands.
Around 200 per table per time (some + some less).
I realize now this is almost nothing when I read that skilled players of 2 or 3 years table experience still play on 1 and 5 NL..
I realize i saw things too bright but I've both feed On the groud.
What I ment by back On track is that i know now that after a downswing there is again light
I also can find fish and exploit them and try to avoid now in my early stage the winners.
For now i need to exploit the fish to build up my BR and slowly learn from the winners' hands.

kazzzman said:

I also can find fish and exploit them and try to avoid now in my early stage the winners.

Click to expand...

Very wise - and this will be an ongoing objective until you play your last hand

Any time the notion enters your mind that you're losing (or not winning more) because you're cursed with bad luck, chase that thought away immediately. Such thinking is simply not conducive to a positive mental attitude.

And... Any tips on how to do that?

And a little update:

I was playing a session now of 259 hands.. After this session I had the stats of a TAG without playing for it, I mean: I just played as I needed to and my stats showing from LAG to TAG.
I'm very happy with it and I got these end stats of the session (see pic)..

My question is: What is the EV net Won/Lost?
How should I see this? If I keep doing these All In's , I will LOOSE 0.07c or win 0.07c?

Pretty happy with the session, more readings on people thanks to HM2 and this helped me a lot, also saved me money with my KK.. and flopped an A..

Now after this session I already did some of my hand reviews and 1 I was really not happy how I played it.. Hope I will not make this mistake anymore

Anyone any comments? Would be appreciated!

If you've been seen to be playing tight. You were always going to lose that hand, i'd call you and raise you on a small flop knowing you'd throw it away.

So you saying a VPIP of 20% is not wide enough?
Any pair, A2s+, suited connectors... Is quite a nice range.
I most of the time now try to keep my same betsize and 3Bet size, unless there is a calling fish and bet more for value with this range.

Jblocher1 said:

I think you should look over your hand history. See where things went wrong in your bad beats. And then change your game accordingly to what you figure out.

Click to expand...

Why would he want to 'see where things went wrong in his badbeats'? I mean... for myself, when I get badbeat there's nothing to look over period. ("Hey.. look, I got villain to make the biggest mistake possible in this spot.. (YAY ME) but the fish still sucked out & won" < get what I mean... there's no point in reviewing that crap).
Review hands for sure... but don't just look at the 'big pots'. I haven't looked over your HH's you've posted here...(yet) but 'if' it is truly just getting unlucky/sucked out on, etc.,.. then practise dealing with it (accepting it).
I've had a pretty horrendous day myself, playing tournaments. Maybe 2 or 3 hands all day I wasn't thrilled about my play (they weren't terrible though)... but have been losing most crucial spots (ie. I don't think I've won 1/10 flips in late levels.. if that many even & lost a few big 80/20's allin pre when it obviously counted ) What can ya do? pfff.... nothing. Just continue to try to play your best, making the most optimal play in each & every situation. (ez game lol)

I have another question that is not yet clear for me..:

I have Pokerstove.. to calculate your all-in equity value. I was sitting on a table with 2 green and 1 blue fish.

This is what the start of the hand was:

Table 'Kenos III' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Player 1 ($0.32 in chips)
Seat 3: Player 2 ($5 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($2.01 in chips)
Seat 5: Player 3 ($0.98 in chips)
Seat 6: Player 4r ($2.14 in chips)
Player 1: posts small blind $0.01
Player 2: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qd Qh]
Hero: raises $0.06 to $0.08
Player 3: folds
Player 4r: folds
Player 1: calls $0.07
Player 2: calls $0.06
*** FLOP *** [8h Jh Tc]
Player 1: checks
Player 2: bets $0.20
Hero: raises $0.80 to $1
Mike Grib joins the table at seat #2
Player 1: calls $0.24 and is all-in
Player 2: raises $1.30 to $2.30

****

So I raise from UTG, 1 green fish picks up and the blue also.
Flop comes, I have overpair and the green fish makes a donk bet. I had already a note that he was very agressive when playing a draw (both straight and flush). So this was for me a sign.
If he was on a draw, he would had to pay for it and I expected him to fold if not on a draw after a 3bet.
Now the blue fish called the 3bet and was all in, but the green fish did put me all in too..

So I did put him on a flush and straight draw now.. And I did put it in Pokerstove.
This gave me an all in EV of 51% and 25% for them, and when I calculated him alone, it give me even 83% so I did call the all in.

Was this a GOOD decision?

Here is the rest:

Hero: calls $0.93 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.37) returned to Player 2
*** TURN *** [8h Jh Tc] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [8h Jh Tc 3h] [Js]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Player 2: shows [9s 8s] (two pair, Jacks and Eights)
Hero: shows [Qd Qh] (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
Hero collected $3.26 from side pot
Player 1: mucks hand
Hero collected $0.93 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4.34 Main pot $0.93. Side pot $3.26. | Rake $0.15
Board [8h Jh Tc 3h Js]
Seat 1: Player 1 (small blind) mucked [Ks Ts]
Seat 3: Player 2 (big blind) showed [9s 8s] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Eights
Seat 4: Hero showed [Qd Qh] and won ($4.19) with two pair, Queens and Jacks
Seat 5: Player 3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Player 4r (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)


Also, how can I solve this out by myself if this should be a good call or not? Can someone give me the math to do this?