Learning bankroll management... the hard way

Which game should be played with a $60 bankroll online?

  • $5 double up sit'n go only to start

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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    18
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dad2adrina

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The most difficult thing for me since i started poker 6 years ago has been dedication to a bankroll management plan. I start one every single time i rededicate myself to poker as a hobby and never seem to stay disciplined enough to follow it. Well this time was going to be different.

I have a wife and child now and i had taken about a year hiatus from poker so that money was responsibly going towards my family and other husband/father obligations. However, my wife knowing my love for poker one day decided to hand $100 cash and said i hope this helps you start a bankroll. You can imagine how excited i was. I began making plans to improve that bankroll including a $40 to $10,000 goal in 6 months. Ambitious i know but i believe in the theory of setting goals higher means more accomplishment even in failure.

So i put $40 on bovada with the intent of keeping $60 free for home games. I lost it in a day. After 6 cash game sessions of 5NL, 4 tournaments that were way too expensive considering the variance for my small roll, and 2 out of 3 $5 double up sit n gos lost, i found myself staring at the screen in an intense tilt and shock over the loss in such a short time.

I am usually a winning poker player. Last year before my hiatus i was hosting home game once every two weeks. $20 buy-ins with 5-7 people other than myself. Usually people would bring 2-3 buyins and although it was never a rule, it was always cash game format and nobody left until one person had it all. And 8 out of 10 times that was me. On the other hand, online poker success for me has always been elusive. I would set goals, throw in $20 bucks and lose that $20 bucks. And that has repeated itself over the years. In person play has always been my strongest game; however, $60 for live poker is not even close to enough. I may generally do well but down swings are a common problem one cannot ignore in the poker world and in no way am i rolled for a downswing of home games or one short stack try at $1/2 live casino game. So it seems almost too logical to throw that $60 on bovada and rethink my plan to grind that up.

I write this post in hopes for ideas on game selection and bankroll percentage in buy-ins for online poker that i may be able to grasp a better understanding of how to not only reach my goal of $10k in 6 months but to not have to redeposit anymore. I am thinking $1-$2 sitngos and tourneys, some of which i have seen success and/or $5 double ups. If you have any comments or advice, i would love to hear it. Thank you.
 
micromachine

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What is your most profitable game?

Imo $60 isn't enough for either 5nl or $3 SNGs
 
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dad2adrina

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I have had the most success with the double ups but ive also seen those dwindle your roll really quick. The variance is much lower though.

Im thinking cash games i need to wait for minimum 30 buyins.

I agree $60 isnt a lot for much. But those MTT sitngos and tourneys can cost 1.10, 2.20 and althoygh they have much higher variance the reward is much bigger. With less than 5% of my roll on the line in the beggining it seems like the roi could be higher.
 
steveiam

steveiam

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The rule most people tend to follow is 20 buy ins for cash and 100+ buy ins for MTT.

So with only $60 you are looking at 2nl cash or $1 buy in for MTT.

At these levels 10k in 6 months is a massive challange and depending on your skill level you might go bust a few times along the way.
 
pfb8888

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stick to freerolls or live play ...online poker cant be beat unless you bonus whore or have good rakeback
 
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dad2adrina

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@steveiam i know its a massive challenge but i think thats what makes it more exciting to want to accomplish. I love the game of poker and i obsess on my free time with books and videos and play as much as i can between work and being an attentive father and husband.

That being said i wish i could put more into it right now but i think the freerolls, $2 buy in and 1.10 on MTT but id like to stick to one maybe two formats and focus on learning and getting better at that as i grind up. I think i just hoped for some advice as which variance seems easier to overcome with such a small starting bankroll
 
sam1chips

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For what it's worth, you can probably play 5nl with $3 buy-ins. That's what I did when I was starting a bankroll...then just play for bonuses and hope to run the bankroll up.

Good luck
 
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detourglr

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on a $60 bankroll.. this is what I use..

.10/.20 Limit Cash Games
.02/.04 NL Cash Game.. $3 buyin
$3 1 table tournaments
$1.20 multi table tournamnets
 
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dad2adrina

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Yeah those do seem to be the way to go. I havent been much of a limit player but i guess that would take away some of the bigger swings. I like the tournaments at $1 and cutting out the $2 also saves me a much needed dollar in high variance choice of game play. $3 cash and sitngos i think also provide a cheaper way to absorb the downs with all the same potential roi at those micro stakes.

Thanks for the advice guys.
 
Mr Sandbag

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$60 is 12 buy-ins for 5NL, which isn't horrible. But I'd suggest sticking with one table until you have more. Variance is going to sting a bit with 12 buy-ins, though.

At one point, I was playing with <5 buy-ins, but that was live poker and it's a very different beast.
 
Arjonius

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I began making plans to improve that bankroll including a $40 to $10,000 goal in 6 months. Ambitious i know but i believe in the theory of setting goals higher means more accomplishment even in failure.
How much thought did you put into setting this goal? Ambitious is fine, but did you temper this with a dose of practicality? For instance, what's your plan? Did you consider how many hours you'd play during said 6 months? The average win rate per hour you'd have to achieve to reach $10 in that number of hours? How much effort did you make to assess how much you'd have to improve your game to raise your average win rate to there from where it is now? Did you consider not just playing time but also study and review?

I am usually a winning poker player.
You're a winning player in your home game. You're a losing player at the levels you've played online. Don't let the former obscure the latter in your mind.

If you have any comments or advice, i would love to hear it. Thank you.
Focus on improving your game, not on the size of your roll, and especially don't distract your focus by having goals that don't seem well thought out and thus may not be remotely realistic even after factoring in that you're aiming high. You don't make money from poker by wanting to make money. You do it by improving your game so that you can be +EV at the levels you play as you move up through them.
 
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hffjd2000

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I agree with pfb8888, stick to freerolls and live games only. You cant beat online poker with just 60 dollars since variance is so high online. You must have massive BR to survive.
 
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TheNoobie

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Not exactly stick, but play the freerolls that you have time to play. Other than that, I voted for the poll for 3$ or less , Im voting for less, I would suggest 0.50c to 1$ MTT's. Dont listen to the guys above, that it is impossible to build a bankroll from that amount of money, its enough, you just need to use it smart. Got a friend that deposited 30$ and turned it into a 5.5k$ profit in less than a month playing gtd tournaments and zooms ( Ended up losing his BR, because he didnt play according to BRM, thats not gonna happen to you ).
If you wanna play Sngs, try to bring just between one or three percent of your whole bankroll at a table, which means that for 0.50c you need to have 50 dollars. You can play bigger tournaments if you want, but you saw yourself what that leads to if you dont cash. You need to play smarter, now that youre trying to increase the income of your household. So everytime you get bored or want to try a bigger than usual tournament, remember what you need the money for and you will be perfectly fine. I wish you best of luck, I hope you accomplish your goal.
 
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WizardRubic

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Hello,

I've been trying to make a decent roll out of nothing. I've had some success after the freerolls in HUSnGs. Dunno if you're any good at em, but if you'd like to take a shot at em, there's a bunch of training videos on husng.com. I'd recommend watching as many as you can. Take notes specifically on what your default strategy is, how you're gonna adjust to your opponent's default, and what you're gonna do to exploit whatever your opponent decides to do.

I guess I'd say my answer is none of the above. Obviously, playing the lowest stake HUSnG's won't get you anywhere near your goal. You'd have to stick in crazy volume to reach your goals through Heads up sit n gos. If you study hard though, the risk of ruin is pretty slim.

Good luck!
 
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goodgameme

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Since you are playing on Bovada, I'd stick with the $1 SnGs. $60 is plenty for this game if your a winning player. I'd play a couple 100 of these just to work on your online game and make sure you are a winning player. If you have to play a MTT I'd pick one of the $1 ones they run each day but make the bulk of your play SnGs for now. As you gain skill and the bankroll, I'd add in 45 mans and then progress to higher limits.

As far as the 10k goal, I'd probably scrap that for a while and just work on your game for this year. Good luck and post some hands so everyone here can help you achieve your goals.
 
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dad2adrina

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@goodgameme thank you for the advice. I am actually going to do exactly that and track it. I did post a hand in another thread for advice. Ive won one and placed 4th in the $2.20 27 person sitngo. In the past week ive gotten up to $133 in my bankroll through $1-$4 tournaments and sitngos. I tried cash a couple times here and there and i just havent found as much success so when i have a bigger bankroll i plan to spend ample amount of time studying and practicing cash while still playin in the various tournaments.

Black diamond series starts in late feb early march too. Excited for that
 
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dad2adrina

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@goodgameme thank you for the advice. I am actually going to do exactly that and track it. I did post a hand in another thread for advice. Ive won one and placed 4th in the $2.20 27 person sitngo. In the past week ive gotten up to $133 in my bankroll through $1-$4 tournaments and sitngos. I tried cash a couple times here and there and i just havent found as much success so when i have a bigger bankroll i plan to spend ample amount of time studying and practicing cash while still playin in the various tournaments.

Black diamond series starts in late feb early march too. Excited for that
 
dj11

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First off, admit you play the game for entertainment. Then you can consider any losses as you would consider going out for dinner and a movie and NOT getting laid!

Drop that pipe dream goal of turning $40 into $10K. Yes it can be done, but not on any kind of predictable schedule. Maintaining that pipe dream will more likely cause you self hatred and other angst's.

You don't ever want to be playing with money you can't afford to lose. Playing a $20 buy-in poker game is usually (like 95%+ of the time) only a better option than flushing that $20 down the toilet.

Now that you understand that ;), and your mindset is more proper, learn to enjoy the cheapest games.:D
 
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DenverDave

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I am from the 50 buyin school. If you are playing 5NL cash, then you should have $250. You could go as low as 30bi/150. Or play lowest limit LHE and build from there.

Double up SNG's are ok. Just have to either get a big chip lead, or play position with great cards. They are about lasting longer vs chip leader.

Good luck
 
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dad2adrina

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Yeah i agree mostly. I wont give up the dream but to give it a timeline would make it taxing and too goal oriented instead of just enjoying the game. I plan on taking the money less seriously, follow good bankroll management, and just work on getting better.
 
magicius

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Seems like my story... I spent aaaa lot (i am even shame to say how much) all minor deposits.. Put 20-60... And thats biggest mistake since variance kills br fast... But i am trying now to stop tilting bad,chasing loses,checking br every minute and taking shots... I think you will be fine,just pick one game and stick to it...
I had bad habit to play 2 tables of zoom 2nl,2 of 5nl zoom and 2 tables sngs... Mess...

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk
 
dj11

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Having played all buy-in ranges from play chips to $215 buy-ins, both ring and tourney, I can tell you that once the game starts, there is little difference. Yes there are the obvious differences, but really, IMHO, the biggest differnce is whether or not I was playing with scared money.

The second difference of note is the tells. Online just watching suspicious characters, in context, can go a long way in determining how to rate them vs me/you. In the freebies and micros it is actually harder to classify players. Many have no clue, but are playing with a gusto that goes away, in general, in the higher buy in games.
 
Bankroll Building - Bankroll Management
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