Knowing what the total pot is in a Live game!

I find it difficult in a Live game to know the total of the pot. We play local pub game where every one is the, actual, dealer each deal. The games are a bit messy, a bit of pot splashing here and there. But that's not the biggest issue I'm having.

I'm finding it really difficult trying to work out my odds against ranges. Next to impossible at the moment. I know I must dedicate more work off the table and I will, so my complaint isn't really about that. But if that wasn't hard enough, what makes it even a harder job is the pot odds.

What is the offline norm? Do you calculate how much the pot is (and pot odds) only when it needs to be done, like let's say when facing a tough decision? Or do you keep a track of the pot since preflop. So on the beginning of each street you know what the pot is?

Thanks.

Burpies

Daithi De Nogla?

Honestly, just pay attention to action. I usually just round it to make it a little easier.

So, lets say it's 1/2 and UTG opens for 13. There are 2 callers before you. 13 x 3 = 39, which I round up to 40. Lets say you call and the pot is 53 going to the flop. Minus rake, you can say the pot is ~50

Same thing goes if there is an raise, followed by the reraise preflop. Prior to to the reraise, figure out about how much was in the pot, then add the reraise. Again, round the numbers to make it a little easier.

Using the same example above, lets say UTG opens to 13, gets 2 callers, and another player 3 bets to 47. So, again, 13 x 3 = 39 or 40. 47 = 50 and 40 + 50 = ~90

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Another way, if there is a lot of pot splashing and I know it can sometimes be hard to hear other players, is to learn how to visually estimate the pot size. Best thing to do is to start off with the highest value chip in the pot and count how many those are.

So, lets say your chip values are Black = 100. Blue = 50. Red = 25 and in a pile of chips, you see 7 Black chips, you know the pot is going to be over 700 chips and nothing less. Then you move onto the next value in chips, 50. You see 11. 50 x 11 = 550 + 700 = 1250. The reds will be a little harder because there will be a lot of them, but you can just estimate how many you see. Lets say you see ~20 or 5 x 4stacks of red. 100 x 5 = 500 + 1250 = ~1750.

When comparing hand odds to pot odds, you might not need to know the full pot. Lets say that you're on a nut flush draw on the turn and need better than 4:1 pot odds to call. You only know that, from counting the Black and Blue chips, the pot is 1250. Your opponent bets out 400. So, the pot is 1650:400, giving you slightly better than 4:1 pot odds. Without even needing to count the red chips, you know you pot alone is giving you better than 4:1 odds to call, so you don't even need to count them to make the call. You only needed to know the total of the 100 and 50 chips.

So, if you're facing a bet, start with counting the highest denomination and working your way down. "Do the number of 100 chips total + bet give me enough pot odds?" If yes, it's a profitable call. If no, move on to the next highest value and repeat.

ohshootmybad said:

Daithi De Nogla?

Honestly, just pay attention to action. I usually just round it to make it a little easier.

So, lets say it's 1/2 and UTG opens for 13. There are 2 callers before you. 13 x 3 = 39, which I round up to 40. Lets say you call and the pot is 53 going to the flop. Minus rake, you can say the pot is ~50

Same thing goes if there is an raise, followed by the reraise preflop. Prior to to the reraise, figure out about how much was in the pot, then add the reraise. Again, round the numbers to make it a little easier.

Using the same example above, lets say UTG opens to 13, gets 2 callers, and another player 3 bets to 47. So, again, 13 x 3 = 39 or 40. 47 = 50 and 40 + 50 = ~90

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Haha never heard of him.

Right, fair enough. I just thought it might be easier to make a mental note on the start of each street. I was wondering how seasoned players deal with this. Thanks.

Bad that I do not have the opportunity to play live poker.

Just pay attention to the action, you will learn alot about the other players as well as never question how much is in the pot, it also helps keep you up and active at the table, its how im able to do 16 hour sessions without hating my life

clayvision said:

Just pay attention to the action, you will learn alot about the other players as well as never question how much is in the pot, it also helps keep you up and active at the table, its how im able to do 16 hour sessions without hating my life

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Thanks for the tip. So you always know how big the pot it then?

I honestly say, if action to you.

you may ask the dealer to counter how many chips in the pot and how many chips are there in your opponent's hands for you.

XXPXXP said:

I honestly say, if action to you.

you may ask the dealer to counter how many chips in the pot and how many chips are there in your opponent's hands for you.

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I don't think Dealer is allowed to provide you with that information.

The dealer has to follow the action to know if the betting is correct. If you're unsure ask them what the action is. Apart them that it's just concentration I'm afraid.

Also be aware that you're probably not the only person that's unsure and other people will likely make mistakes as well.

You must keep count of the pot at all times, if you don't, you don't know what odds you are getting. You know your outs, but not the pot.

Daithi said:

I don't think Dealer is allowed to provide you with that information.

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I don't think when you ask the dealer

"Can you count how many chips/dollars are there currently in the pot?"
the dealer will refuse?

the same is
I don't think when you ask dealer
"Can you count how many chips/dollars are there left when that opponent left?"

the dealer will refused to do the count.

adding: BTW: in Las vegas, at cash table, I always ask dealer to count when pot is big enough when action to me, never get refused, or if get refused, I will call floor manager to settle this.

this is the information dealer must do. think if dealer not count, , when pot push to u,you win 600 chips u count it and actually all u get is 560... who is responsible for that?

Oh okay. I heard it was forbidden. Many poker dealers have stated in several poker forums and websites that it is not allowed. I think he can spread the chips or stack em, but he cannot tell you the amount, because that is advising. I read it may be allowed in Pot Limit, but NLHE allegedly no. I think there may be exceptions when all-in, he might give you a chip count.

But hey I am not gonna argue about this, because I haven't been

Daithi said:

Oh okay. I heard it was forbidden. Many poker dealers have stated in several poker forums and websites that it is not allowed. I think he can spread the chips or stack em, but he cannot tell you the amount, because that is advising. I read it may be allowed in Pot Limit, but NLHE allegedly no. I think there may be exceptions when all-in, he might give you a chip count.

But hey I am not gonna argue about this, because I haven't been

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you are entitled the right to know the stack size and pot size when action to you, and you have not act.

this is generally pure table information brings no advantage/disadvantage among the players.

so, if the dealer choose to spread chips, I think it is fine, but you can announce to dealer, it is not clearly visible to you, and ask dealer to count for you. and bring this rules to dealer. I think the dealer cannot refuse.

the same thing happens when asking for how many chips left to your opponent, so your opponent have the right not count for you, but have no right to hide his stack, and you also can announce to dealer, it is not clearly visible to you, and ask the dealer to count for you.

PS: you know , time is money, if the dealer wants to earn more potential tips, he/she knows to speed up, see more flop brings more action, not slowdown the table pace...right?

BTW: you have at least 100+ reason to support, dealers spread chips is not clearly visible from " I am drunk" to " My eyes are heavy to move" who knows it is real or not.

XXPXXP said:

you are entitled the right to know the stack size and pot size when action to you, and you have not act.

this is generally pure table information brings no advantage/disadvantage among the players.

so, if the dealer choose to spread chips, I think it is fine, but you can announce to dealer, it is not clearly visible to you, and ask dealer to count for you. and bring this rules to dealer. I think the dealer cannot refuse.

the same thing happens when asking for how many chips left to your opponent, so your opponent have the right not count for you, but have no right to hide his stack, and you also can announce to dealer, it is not clearly visible to you, and ask the dealer to count for you.

PS: you know , time is money, if the dealer wants to earn more potential tips, he/she knows to speed up, see more flop brings more action, not slowdown the table pace...right?

BTW: you have at least 100+ reason to support, dealers spread chips is not clearly visible from " I am drunk" to " My eyes are heavy to move" who knows it is real or not.

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Okay 😀

soon

I've never played live poker, hope i can do it soon