keep losing at online poker?

magget16 · Dec 24, 2010

I have been losing at poker pretty much non stop since September, and it's starting to cost me a fair bit of money which i can't afford because i am a student. I started off on full tilt, then moved to everest, 888, partypoker, sky poker, sportsbook, and finally titan. I deposit between 5-20 pounds each time, and seem to increase my bankroll by about 20% in the first day, then break even for a while and eventually lose. Against tight players, i normally break even when i play tight or lose when i play loose. Loose players seem to always fold when i have a hand, and if i have an ok hand like top pair or two pair i'll call their 'bluffs' and they have something better. The only exception is skypoker where i managed to turn 10 pounds into 70 pounds in about 13 days, then changed to 888 because of the low traffic on sky, and lost it all. I can only presume i am a incredibly bad player considering the reputation of some of these sites. I nearly always play tight unless the Players/flop is around 10%, i play roughly according to the starting hand chart on poker professor, though obviously it varies to situation...

On the contrary, offline i do almost nothing but make money. I have been to my local poker club in a 3 pounds rebuy/addon tourney 8 times, and cashed 3 times not once having a rebuy or addon, with an overall 210 pound profit. At my local uni club i play at cash tables buying in for 5 pounds, and am overall up about 80 pouinds after 6 sessions. Funnily enough i don't pay nearly as much attention to betting patterns or pot odds as i do online, and don't even attempt to read body language, acting on pure gut instincts.

I dont get why i can't beat a bunch of fish on 888, but can beat reasonable players at clubs who often gamble with 100s of pounds. Sorry for the novel of a thread, but i would really appreciate some help with this.

FreeRollWannabe · Dec 24, 2010

The truth of the matter is... Real Life Poker Players Suck.

Omg! Why would I say that??? Cause the majority of anybody playing at the live tables are some older people whom are on vacation havin fun, younger people that just turned 21 or love the thrill of being in such an environment, they think they know how to play, or people whom think they know poker.

Someone whom is already online is only a few clicks away from some of the best stragety articles, rules, help, software etc...

Plus anyone can play online at their will, which means players play when they are at the top of their game.

Then there is just straight up boredom. In real life the hands go so slow that many players play with crap cards just to play, to get some action. It feels like you are getting blinded away far more in real life than on internet. (Not to mention on the internet you get real numbers, exact.) I found most casinos do not keep track of the exact chip count, and don't expect the players to know nor care. To me this proves that the majority of players irl have a very limited idea about pot odds, implied odds etc.

In my real life experience I found the tables to be full of nothing but wannabes and drunks, and any kind of higher level playing just ripped them a new one.

You are having trouble online because you got to be better against a wider range of players. You just aren't that good, I am sure you are better than irl players but online esp. FTP you have a really good group of players.

magget16 · Dec 24, 2010

FreeRollWannabe said:
The truth of the matter is... Real Life Poker Players Suck.

Omg! Why would I say that??? Cause the majority of anybody playing at the live tables are some older people whom are on vacation havin fun, younger people that just turned 21 or love the thrill of being in such an environment, they think they know how to play, or people whom think they know poker.

Someone whom is already online is only a few clicks away from some of the best stragety articles, rules, help, software etc...

Plus anyone can play online at their will, which means players play when they are at the top of their game.

Then there is just straight up boredom. In real life the hands go so slow that many players play with crap cards just to play, to get some action. It feels like you are getting blinded away far more in real life than on internet. (Not to mention on the internet you get real numbers, exact.) I found most Casinos do not keep track of the exact chip count, and don't expect the players to know nor care. To me this proves that the majority of players irl have a very limited idea about pot odds, implied odds etc.

In my real life experience I found the tables to be full of nothing but wannabes and drunks, and any kind of higher level playing just ripped them a new one.

You are having trouble online because you got to be better against a wider range of players. You just aren't that good, I am sure you are better than irl players but online esp. FTP you have a really good group of players.

sooo, I obviously have some major leaks in my gameplay, which is why im losing online? I mean i would have thought 888 micro stakes were easier than irl players.

RdotJdot · Dec 24, 2010

Card rooms r a much more social event than playing online. Online even micro steaks can be very competitive at times. Its not totally loaded with fish like u may believe. U might wanna take a look at ur bankroll management maybe thats why u been going broke. U have to expect some big loosing streaks.

magget16 · Dec 24, 2010

RdotJdot said:
Card rooms r a much more social event than playing online. Online even micro steaks can be very competitive at times. Its not totally loaded with fish like u may believe. U might wanna take a look at ur bankroll management maybe thats why u been going broke. U have to expect some big loosing streaks.

i did wonder whether i was expecting to win too often or not, i mean i would expect to turn a $20 bankroll into 40 within a week because of the low standard of play and stakes. but is this too ambitious?

Shady Vision · Dec 25, 2010

magget16 said:
i did wonder whether i was expecting to win too often or not, i mean i would expect to turn a $20 bankroll into 40 within a week because of the low standard of play and stakes. but is this too ambitious?

It is quite ambitious actually. Unless you are crushing the micros bringing in more than 10bb/100 then you'd need to play at least 10000 hands in a week to show a $20 profit if you are playing 2nl which is about all you'd be staked for with that size of a bankroll.

You've got to think of it as a long term game rather than hoping for a quick double up or fast easy money. Play well and put in the time and you will see your BR grow.

If it doesn't seem "interesting" enough for you at the micros then you could always deposit more and play at a higher level to see faster growth.... or a faster decline....

RdotJdot · Dec 25, 2010

Yeah u really need to have at least 10 buy ins. 20 buy ins is actually what is considered a safe bankroll. And if u lose a few buy ins u must forget ur ego and be ready to jump down is stakes. If u only have 20 dollars u can't be playing a ten dollar buy in table. U might win a few buy ins but if u hit a loosing streak u will be out of money in no time. And everyone does eventually. If u have only 20 u can only really play a 2 dollar buy in table and even then with some bad luck u could lose it.especially cuz the level of play is so loose at that level that u could have a huge swing. Unfortunately u don't have much of a bankroll to play with. U might wanna stick to some freerolls or wait till ur able to deposit so that ur bankroll is at about a hundred before u start playing cash games. or maybe try some small one dollar buy ins like say 45 man sngs to help buid a bankroll. I hope I helped ya a little.

wrung24 · Dec 25, 2010

magget16 said:
I nearly always play tight unless the Players/flop is around 10%

Don't sit down (or stay if you're already there) at a table that is this tight, you're just not getting enough action from the players on it, you should be constantly looking for fish and concentrating on playing against them.

Having a starting hand chart is great but you should be evolving your play around the other players habits, for example you should be raising to isolate a fish in position a lot lighter than you would against a nit. Also i haven't seen your stats but I have a gut feeling you're calling instead of raising too much preflop, raise more and tighten up if you don't feel comfortable with that at first. If you play 6-max then you should be uber tight early and opening just about ATC on the button.

Good luck and keep on looking to improve !

magget16 · Dec 26, 2010

wrung24 said:
Don't sit down (or stay if you're already there) at a table that is this tight, you're just not getting enough action from the players on it, you should be constantly looking for fish and concentrating on playing against them.

Having a starting hand chart is great but you should be evolving your play around the other players habits, for example you should be raising to isolate a fish in position a lot lighter than you would against a nit. Also i haven't seen your stats but I have a gut feeling you're calling instead of raising too much preflop, raise more and tighten up if you don't feel comfortable with that at first. If you play 6-max then you should be uber tight early and opening just about ATC on the button.

Good luck and keep on looking to improve !

heh, those gut feelings are always spot on

i've heard from several players that you shouldn't call preflop, and only play a hand that you would raise with. I limp with suited weak aces and small pairs. Pairs i will limp from any position because i make the most money from bottom sets, no one sees em coming

I generally avoid 6 max, thought i would specialise in 9 max nl holdem cash games, though i do like tournaments. thanks for the help btw

magget16 · Dec 26, 2010

Shady Vision said:
It is quite ambitious actually. Unless you are crushing the micros bringing in more than 10bb/100 then you'd need to play at least 10000 hands in a week to show a $20 profit if you are playing 2nl which is about all you'd be staked for with that size of a bankroll.

You've got to think of it as a long term game rather than hoping for a quick double up or fast easy money. Play well and put in the time and you will see your BR grow.

If it doesn't seem "interesting" enough for you at the micros then you could always deposit more and play at a higher level to see faster growth.... or a faster decline....

RdotJdot said:
Yeah u really need to have at least 10 buy ins. 20 buy ins is actually what is considered a safe bankroll. And if u lose a few buy ins u must forget ur ego and be ready to jump down is stakes. If u only have 20 dollars u can't be playing a ten dollar buy in table. U might win a few buy ins but if u hit a loosing streak u will be out of money in no time. And everyone does eventually. If u have only 20 u can only really play a 2 dollar buy in table and even then with some bad luck u could lose it.especially cuz the level of play is so loose at that level that u could have a huge swing. Unfortunately u don't have much of a bankroll to play with. U might wanna stick to some freerolls or wait till ur able to deposit so that ur bankroll is at about a hundred before u start playing cash games. or maybe try some small one dollar buy ins like say 45 man sngs to help buid a bankroll. I hope I helped ya a little.

Yeah i think i am being too impatient, when i play for 2 hours and only make a dollar or two it feels like a complete waste of time, then i take risks and lose. Guess i should deposit an amount that would feel worthwhile. I was using the poker professor $1000 challenge guide, which makes out that you can turn $25 into $1000 in like 100-200 hours.
You may be right about the sngs, or i could try some MTTs to get bigger prizes. thanks for the help

wrung24 · Dec 26, 2010

magget16 said:
heh, those gut feelings are always spot on i've heard from several players that you shouldn't call preflop, and only play a hand that you would raise with. I limp with suited weak aces and small pairs. Pairs i will limp from any position because i make the most money from bottom sets, no one sees em coming I generally avoid 6 max, thought i would specialise in 9 max nl holdem cash games, though i do like tournaments. thanks for the help btw

Yeah I thought I would be not far off the truth with that one

. If by limp you mean open limp then you should definetly stop doing that, if its calling an opponents raise, then with stuff like pocket pairs thats fine (suited connectors and suited aces are a lot tougher to play so I would advise you to not play them until you've got a little more experience playing postflop, I don't feel comfortable playing them yet), the more money you get in preflop, the more you can get in postflop, get those bottom sets of yours paid off by putting money in there

.

magget16 · Dec 26, 2010

wrung24 said:
Yeah I thought I would be not far off the truth with that one . If by limp you mean open limp then you should definetly stop doing that, if its calling an opponents raise, then with stuff like pocket pairs thats fine (suited connectors and suited aces are a lot tougher to play so I would advise you to not play them until you've got a little more experience playing postflop, I don't feel comfortable playing them yet), the more money you get in preflop, the more you can get in postflop, get those bottom sets of yours paid off by putting money in there .

i guess that's how you make more money off hands like AK and AQ, i find that i don't get paid off with them big because everyone knows i have an ace, but if you get lots in preflop, then you already have a nice pot, and they will be more reluctant to fold. What about open limping with suited connectors? cant see the logic in raising there...

wrung24 · Dec 26, 2010

As I said before, there is (in my opinion) no need to play suited connectors almost at all, they are quite tough to play postflop. The problem is at the micros you are up against a lot of loose players, the key to beating these players is by betting for value as much as possible, which implies you are in front, you won't be in front a lot with mid suited connectors. SCs are popular at the mid stakes and higher because you've got to play with a balanced range against the observing players that play there, players at the micros don't observe so just play good hands the best you can and you'll be fine.

If you can't help it then call with stuff like 98s and 78s in position against a raise from a tightish player, but you have been warned.

swingro · Jan 3, 2011

wrung24 said:
As I said before, there is (in my opinion) no need to play suited connectors almost at all, they are quite tough to play postflop. The problem is at the micros you are up against a lot of loose players, the key to beating these players is by betting for value as much as possible, which implies you are in front, you won't be in front a lot with mid suited connectors. SCs are popular at the mid stakes and higher because you've got to play with a balanced range against the observing players that play there, players at the micros don't observe so just play good hands the best you can and you'll be fine.

If you can't help it then call with stuff like 98s and 78s in position against a raise from a tightish player, but you have been warned.

Ithink suited connectors are yeasy to play postflop as long you are decent at calculating your pott odds.
I agree to the fact that you must bet for value because most of the time donks pay and chase all kind of weak draws or call with pairs or an ace.
I do not think you have to think too much and make some fancy plays at micros. No need for HM eather.
Play small pairs in multywaypots if the raise is 2-3 BB and there are 4-5 callers, suited connectors , bet the hell out of the big pairs if you know the opponent is loose.

Of course there are times where the donks hit the board one hand after another. Must be ready to deal with it.
I myself had 2 horrible weeks. But i know that this happen so i play untill the bad luck change and start grinding again.

zackryan28 · Jan 3, 2011

magget16 said:
I have been losing at poker pretty much non stop since September, and it's starting to cost me a fair bit of money which i can't afford because i am a student. I started off on full tilt, then moved to everest, 888, partypoker, sky poker, sportsbook, and finally titan. I deposit between 5-20 pounds each time, and seem to increase my bankroll by about 20% in the first day, then break even for a while and eventually lose. Against tight players, i normally break even when i play tight or lose when i play loose. Loose players seem to always fold when i have a hand, and if i have an ok hand like top pair or two pair i'll call their 'bluffs' and they have something better. The only exception is skypoker where i managed to turn 10 pounds into 70 pounds in about 13 days, then changed to 888 because of the low traffic on sky, and lost it all. I can only presume i am a incredibly bad player considering the reputation of some of these sites. I nearly always play tight unless the Players/flop is around 10%, i play roughly according to the starting hand chart on poker professor, though obviously it varies to situation...

On the contrary, offline i do almost nothing but make money. I have been to my local poker club in a 3 pounds rebuy/addon tourney 8 times, and cashed 3 times not once having a rebuy or addon, with an overall 210 pound profit. At my local uni club i play at cash tables buying in for 5 pounds, and am overall up about 80 pouinds after 6 sessions. Funnily enough i don't pay nearly as much attention to betting patterns or pot odds as i do online, and don't even attempt to read body language, acting on pure gut instincts.

I dont get why i can't beat a bunch of fish on 888, but can beat reasonable players at clubs who often gamble with 100s of pounds. Sorry for the novel of a thread, but i would really appreciate some help with this.

I didn't read all of the other posts, but I'll give you my advice (sorry if people already covered it):

Two basic yet important things one must do to make money online are to play tight-aggressive, and utilize good bankroll management. What is tight aggressive? If you play sng's or MTT's, it means only playing premium hands early on, and gradually loosening as the blinds increase. Aggressive, because whenever you do play a hand, you should almost always be raising. If your hand is good, don't be a pansy and call light. Raise it up, and push your opponents around. I pretty much only call if I have a monster and I think the other guy is gonna keep betting at me, and a few other unique situations I won't go into now.

What is bankroll management: If you play sng's, make sure you have a good number of buy ins to work with. The general standard is 100, but as a casual player, you can get by with 50, but you definitely want at least 50. For cash games, pretty much the same deal. You want to buy in at each table for 100 BB (if you're playing .5/.10, sit down with $10), and you want to have a good 50 buy ins to work with. If you are killing at the level you are playing, go ahead and move up a little, but don't play at a level that can't handle a few bad beats. Other than that, play smart, don't play scared, and have fun. If you aren't confident, and you aren't enjoying yourself, your success is gonna come very thin.

Lastly, sorry if this post come off as patronizing, or it's stuff you already know. Since I don't know how much you've been exposed to online poker, I figured it best to outline my most basic philosophy.

May the cards be with you.

wrung24 · Jan 3, 2011

Hi z0, try posting that here :

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...ad-all-rigged-roads-lead-181855/index141.html

It's been dead for a few days ...

swingro · Jan 4, 2011

wrung24 said:
Hi z0, try posting that here :

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...ad-all-rigged-roads-lead-181855/index141.html

It's been dead for a few days ...

LAMO

bigpick76 · Jan 4, 2011

z0d14c16 said:
Online poker is actually random cause someone designed software for you to get boned. You can never be satisfied with online poker because it is never truly random. The only thing i suggest is not playing online poker and just play with friends or live events.

i was very surprised to not see the old...."hey whats the freeroll pw btw".....after this post

lilmishap · Jan 8, 2011

zackryan28 said:
I didn't read all of the other posts, but I'll give you my advice (sorry if people already covered it):

Two basic yet important things one must do to make money online are to play tight-aggressive, and utilize good bankroll management. What is tight aggressive? If you play sng's or MTT's, it means only playing premium hands early on, and gradually loosening as the blinds increase. Aggressive, because whenever you do play a hand, you should almost always be raising. If your hand is good, don't be a pansy and call light. Raise it up, and push your opponents around. I pretty much only call if I have a monster and I think the other guy is gonna keep betting at me, and a few other unique situations I won't go into now.

What is bankroll management: If you play sng's, make sure you have a good number of buy ins to work with. The general standard is 100, but as a casual player, you can get by with 50, but you definitely want at least 50. For cash games, pretty much the same deal. You want to buy in at each table for 100 BB (if you're playing .5/.10, sit down with $10), and you want to have a good 50 buy ins to work with. If you are killing at the level you are playing, go ahead and move up a little, but don't play at a level that can't handle a few bad beats. Other than that, play smart, don't play scared, and have fun. If you aren't confident, and you aren't enjoying yourself, your success is gonna come very thin.

Lastly, sorry if this post come off as patronizing, or it's stuff you already know. Since I don't know how much you've been exposed to online poker, I figured it best to outline my most basic philosophy.

May the cards be with you.[/Q

This is the most easy to understand explanation Ive ever read!
TBH when i hear phrases like "100x the bb" I, like other poor people, freak out, stop reading and go pour money into peoples bankrolls. I wish Id read this before I poured so much 'nervous money' into FTP in the hope of getting a paltry win.

petecoffin · Jan 8, 2011

magget16 said:
I have been losing at poker pretty much non stop since September, and it's starting to cost me a fair bit of money which i can't afford because i am a student. I started off on full tilt, then moved to everest, 888, partypoker, sky poker, sportsbook, and finally titan. I deposit between 5-20 pounds each time, and seem to increase my bankroll by about 20% in the first day, then break even for a while and eventually lose. Against tight players, i normally break even when i play tight or lose when i play loose. Loose players seem to always fold when i have a hand, and if i have an ok hand like top pair or two pair i'll call their 'bluffs' and they have something better. The only exception is skypoker where i managed to turn 10 pounds into 70 pounds in about 13 days, then changed to 888 because of the low traffic on sky, and lost it all. I can only presume i am a incredibly bad player considering the reputation of some of these sites. I nearly always play tight unless the Players/flop is around 10%, i play roughly according to the starting hand chart on poker professor, though obviously it varies to situation...

On the contrary, offline i do almost nothing but make money. I have been to my local poker club in a 3 pounds rebuy/addon tourney 8 times, and cashed 3 times not once having a rebuy or addon, with an overall 210 pound profit. At my local uni club i play at cash tables buying in for 5 pounds, and am overall up about 80 pouinds after 6 sessions. Funnily enough i don't pay nearly as much attention to betting patterns or pot odds as i do online, and don't even attempt to read body language, acting on pure gut instincts.

I dont get why i can't beat a bunch of fish on 888, but can beat reasonable players at clubs who often gamble with 100s of pounds. Sorry for the novel of a thread, but i would really appreciate some help with this.

I am gonna have to agree with 100% aid here mate, cheers for finally voicing everything ive been feeling..

ThailandPetah

Ricky747 · Jan 19, 2011

You're a college student -- you should be getting drunk and getting laid, not playing poker online.

Especially because you seem to find softer competition in the live games ...

tony80 · Jan 20, 2011

It’s not that you have a bad game plan, it may be just that you made the right calls at the wrong time. Play tight while still being a little aggressive. For the first few hands, play defensively, master how the other players move, play decent hands and get a feel of what strategy other players employ. As the blinds increase, try to loosen up. Do the occasional bluffing but do not be predictable, and don’t move away from your tight game plan. At the end of the day, it’s how you read other players and a bit of luck on your side that is going to help you win.

_BadaBing_ · Jan 20, 2011

i think if y'all win in a ring game for a good cash amt then leave come back again another day...gamblin isnt ez but i agree that instinct is important along with mixing it up. stick w/wut u do best 4awhile local games lay low 4awhile wit online ring gamez or once inawhile do a sng. gl bro l8r o and 1 other thot if u r plannin on callin reraise instead if itz gd enuff 2 call it should be gd enuff to raise yo

works a lot o the time 4 me

am21 · Jan 20, 2011

ive been losing since march 2010
so i kinda get used to it
win enough to keep me playin for a few days then just go bust
im needin to study BR management more i think

CntryBoys · Jan 20, 2011

I am 25 and have not had much luck at online poker either but do really well in casnios and home games. hang in there!!

keep losing at online poker?

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