Is it wrong to play a strong draw aggressively if u have no fold equity?

I had a hand where it was a 3 way limp pot. I had K9 of hearts on SB.

The flop's QJ6 with 2 hearts. I check, BB checks, and BTN puts in a weak bet. I made it 3x his raise, but then BB puts in 3x my raise. BTN folds.

I have about $2.50 left here, his bet is $1.20 or so, and the pot is about $1.80. I have zero fold equity here.

I didn't wanna just call. I thought about folding but I ended up shoving. He had J5 of hearts.

With no fold equity, is it better to fold there? The check raise suggests a lot of strength. As it turned out he had about as weak a hand as I could have hoped, but now that I think about it, it feels like a bad shove.

check-raise/folding when you have that much equity is absurd. Just stick it in and realize your equity.

probably should bet the flop.

If I bet and BB raises, with the pot smaller, should I just call? Or still shove it?

I would just shove, you have so much equity regardless unless he has like AThh we should always be in good shape.

If his range is AQ, KQ, QJ, QT, Q6, J6, KT, T9, Axhh most of your outs are going to be scare cards and on some of your outs you won't know whether you're good or not.

blueskies said:

I had a hand where it was a 3 way limp pot. I had K9 of hearts on SB.

The flop's QJ6 with 2 hearts. I check, BB checks, and BTN puts in a weak bet. I made it 3x his raise, but then BB puts in 3x my raise. BTN folds.

I have about $2.50 left here, his bet is $1.20 or so, and the pot is about $1.80. I have zero fold equity here.

I didn't wanna just call. I thought about folding but I ended up shoving. He had J5 of hearts.

With no fold equity, is it better to fold there? The check raise suggests a lot of strength. As it turned out he had about as weak a hand as I could have hoped, but now that I think about it, it feels like a bad shove.

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2nd pair and 3rd nut flush draw about as weak as a holding as you could of imagined? I've seen much, much worse spaz raises in this postion and I certainly don't ever imagine this being as weak as a holding i could of imagined him having?

I'm definetly getting my chips in here if I'm villian everytime and even if behind, it woulden't be by much.
I'm sure there are much worse hands he could of connected with the board here with.

He's most likely ahead of you most times here.

As played though, I don't think shoving is bad here, I think I'd of shoved myself with an over and 2nd nut flush.

I agree with the shove. I think you are left with little choice you have to much to be scared about and the little you do is very out done by the odds of wining.

First off raise preflop. But to answer your question, if you have no fold equity at all and you have a standard draw like this with 12 outs or less (you are a dog of course), no it is not a good idea to get it in.

The whole point of raising with a draw or semi bluffing is the ability to win the pot some of the time without showdown. If you can't do that then you are just getting money in bad, and of course that isn't winning poker.

given the size of the pot already you cannot fold a 12-out draw ever.

baudib1 said:

given the size of the pot already you cannot fold a 12-out draw ever.

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What outs are you counting out?

3K + 4T + 9:heart: = 16 outs, right? Or what am I missing?

in this specific hand we have 13 - 3 kings 3 Tens (you can't count the Th twice) and 7 hearts (because villain has 2).

You are right about the T (I keep counting two outs in these situations btw) but I was thinking we didn't take the villain's hand in consideration but the whole remaining deck if that makes sense.

I don't have much issue with getting it all in, but I do find it difficult to categorize a shove with no fold equity as aggressive. Aggressive play, as an admitted generalization, relies on winning a fair number of pots without going to showdown.

Wow now I'm getting confused with the outs. We have 3 kings 3 tens and we should have 9 hearts A2345678T(I just took out the QJ but idk which two cards on the board were hearts), so shouldn't we have 15 outs?

bgomez89 said:

Wow now I'm getting confused with the outs. We have 3 kings 3 tens and we should have 9 hearts A2345678T(I just took out the QJ but idk which two cards on the board were hearts), so shouldn't we have 15 outs?

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baudib is not counting the hearts he knows is in the villain's hand, that's all, mate. Real time that would be the right number of outs to count.

Gotcha

red line is overrated.

opponent has J5 of hearts, the 3 10's are not outs as he allready has a pair of Jacks
Your outs are the remaining 9 hearts and the 3 Kings

straight > pair imo

oh yes, never comment when hungover

Here's another doozy. I had JsJh on CO. (6 handed 4NL table). The guy to my right limps. I raise it to 18c (4.5BB). Btn calls and limper calls.

Flop comes T78 with 2 diamonds. Limper checks. I raise to 45c into 60 cent pot. Btn calls and limper min. raises which raises all kinds of red flags.

I feel compelled to fold here. I don't think the guy's check min. raising against two opponents with just a T. Looks like he hit the flop very hard.

Why couldn't it be a T? He sounds like a drooler

Most folks at 4nl have a big hand here.

From my experience anyway.

folding seems bad to me

maybe floped 2 pair, or a pair and a flush draw. Set is possible as many players enjoy limping PPs from late position. What did you do?