Is it worth joining a training site?

Hi

I've been playing poker since June of this year and am doing my best to take it seriously. Started out well but things have gone downhill recently. It seems the more I learn and try to apply, the worse I get! Think I'm trying to second guess people too much, convinced they must be bluffing. Find it hard to fold sets or AA/KK even when there is a possible straight on the ragged flop. Note to self: Villains rarely bluff at 2/5 NL. And more often than not they will go all-in with a draw...

Anyway, I'm thinking of getting some training and was wondering if anyone has any recommendations? I've heard of dragthebar, cardrunners and Poker Zion. Does anyone have any experience of these or are there any other training sites you would recommend?

Thanks all!

they do help, long as ur good at self teaching yourself. And have the drive to do so. I would start off with books , then move on with training sites when u feel ready. Cause alot of training sites start off as u knowing some terms of poker

Myself, I can read something 10 times and it will not sink in... But if I can do it with vocal and visual lessons just one time. I can get a good grasp of the idea. Don't know if that means I'm right brain or left brain or even maybe no brains.

pokerstars training school

lawrelye said:

Hi

I've been playing poker since June of this year and am doing my best to take it seriously. Started out well but things have gone downhill recently. It seems the more I learn and try to apply, the worse I get! Think I'm trying to second guess people too much, convinced they must be bluffing. Find it hard to fold sets or AA/KK even when there is a possible straight on the ragged flop. Note to self: Villains rarely bluff at 2/5 NL. And more often than not they will go all-in with a draw...

Anyway, I'm thinking of getting some training and was wondering if anyone has any recommendations? I've heard of dragthebar, cardrunners and Poker Zion. Does anyone have any experience of these or are there any other training sites you would recommend?

Thanks all!

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pokerstars training school was the way to go when us players could play there.Just when you think you have it down all he double l breaks your bank roll.I think anything that will help improve your game do it and yes any poker school can really help.
good luck to you hope you find something when you do post i may join right along too.

lawrelye said:

Hi

I've been playing poker since June of this year and am doing my best to take it seriously. Started out well but things have gone downhill recently. It seems the more I learn and try to apply, the worse I get! Think I'm trying to second guess people too much, convinced they must be bluffing. Find it hard to fold sets or AA/KK even when there is a possible straight on the ragged flop. Note to self: Villains rarely bluff at 2/5 NL. And more often than not they will go all-in with a draw...

Anyway, I'm thinking of getting some training and was wondering if anyone has any recommendations? I've heard of dragthebar, cardrunners and Poker Zion. Does anyone have any experience of these or are there any other training sites you would recommend?

Thanks all!

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Maybe check out BlackRain's book first? He's also got a few series of vids. on DragTheBar that are geared towards micro cash tables.

As far as whether or not it's worth it > 'it depends'. You'll get out of it what you put into it. I found Training Sites to be very beneficial.

Not sure what you've done up to this point as far as studying goes. I too would recommend reading a couple books prior to joining a training site.

ImDenuts said:

I would not recommend Dragthebar there content really does not cut for me.

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I have to ask what you found lacking about DTB's content?

Thanks for the replies.

Dreams - Yes, I've read lots of books and am good at self-teaching, am disciplined etc. I do understand the terms of poker now after reading and studying my stats most days. I think I'm probably lacking on the mathematical side. I like maths and can calculate odds and outs okay but when I'm playing, find it difficult in the heat of the moment and make bad hero calls when I have a feeling I shouldn't... I'm usually right!

Wagon - Ha ha! Yes, I think I prefer videos too. I haven't just read my poker books and online tutorials once but several times. I'm thinking if I'm accountable it will force me to put the lessons into action.

Deeshark - I'm not on Stars yet. Thought I'd join when I have more experience as I heard it's tougher than most sites. I will keep this post updated with my decision and experience so that you can check them out too.

ImDenuts - Yes I've heard of Dueces Cracked. I will check them out too. Thanks!

PO - I've read good things about BlackRain's book on here and was seriously tempted to check it out. But I've read several books and was wondering if I needed another medium (or coaching maybe) to make things sink in. I will have another think about getting it though as I know your stuff so your recommendation means a lot. If he's also involved with DTB then I'll have a close look at them too.

Thanks again everyone. I've got a lot of research to do. Does anyone think that coaching at such a beginner level is good (to get into good habits) or is it better to leave it until you're more advanced?

Video training might help a lot. But, given that you seem to be having trouble integrating the info you've read up to now, it might also lead to further overload.

I assume you're playing .02/.05 not 2/5. You certainly don't need to be an advanced player to win at this level. Indeed, some things that much winning higher-level players have in their games can be unproductive or even counter-productive for you since they require opponents to have certain levels of knowledge / ability that your opponents don't.

Arjonius said:

Video training might help a lot. But, given that you seem to be having trouble integrating the info you've read up to now, it might also lead to further overload.

I assume you're playing .02/.05 not 2/5. You certainly don't need to be an advanced player to win at this level. Indeed, some things that much winning higher-level players have in their games can be unproductive or even counter-productive for you since they require opponents to have certain levels of knowledge / ability that your opponents don't.

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Thanks Arjonius. Sorry - yes, I meant 2NL and 5NL (0.01/0.02 & 0.02/0/05).

I think you're right. Perhaps I'm reading too far ahead of my level. I know the basics and was doing okay when sticking to those but after reading more advanced strategies and trying to incorporate these I started losing. I was calling river bets thinking players were bluffing and also folding hands like Two Pair or TPTK only to find out later that the villain was betting/calling all streets with medium pair or sometimes even bottom pair!

I know that one thing I really need to improve is putting opponents on hand ranges. Maybe that's something a training site can help with.

its worth it imo. just gotta find out which fits for you. most of them have a trial so you should try them out and see i have tried several of them. i like tournament poker edge most since im more a tour player than cash game. Deuces cracked and/or dragthebar you wont go wrong with imo there is also Grinderschool - lots of micro stake content there, cant remember if they have trial to tho

seqas said:

its worth it imo. just gotta find out which fits for you. most of them have a trial so you should try them out and see i have tried several of them. i like tournament poker edge most since im more a tour player than cash game. Deuces cracked and/or dragthebar you wont go wrong with imo there is also Grinderschool - lots of micro stake content there, cant remember if they have trial to tho

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Oh I didn't know about the trials. Thanks segas!

Update: I bought BlackRain's "Crushing the Microstakes" yesterday and so far it looks great. Can't wait to start the "crush"!

wagon596 said:

Myself, I can read something 10 times and it will not sink in... But if I can do it with vocal and visual lessons just one time. I can get a good grasp of the idea. Don't know if that means I'm right brain or left brain or even maybe no brains.

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This is my trouble, I read books and whenI play I do the exact opposite. When I first started playing poker, Id read about position and said yea I get it and go play and get destroyed and post some hands up and people would say WHY YOU PLAYING EVERYTHING OOP and im like hmm I am playing OOP. Long stroy short I do better when its my game being picked apart becasue I guess its more familiar ground

I've tried a few different Poker Training sites, and have liked most of them. But at some point i figured out that i prefered a lesson/classroom type video. Where the coach would talk about a topic for a bit, and then go into some examples. A live sweat video is good for me, if there are only a 1-2 tables, but anything more than that and it starts to lose me a bit, action is hard to follow, etc. But i guess you just have to figure out what videos you prefer, or which ones you get the most out of.

I found Poker Zion through the Leakbuster software, and signed up for their Roots and Iron Lion courses, and each week you get training content covering a different topic, and have found that i like their approach. But i also recently signed up at Cardrunners, and i haven't watched many of them yet, but so far Verneer's videos are pretty good. He has a couple series on microstakes that seem pretty good.

Goathair said:

I've tried a few different Poker Training sites, and have liked most of them. But at some point i figured out that i prefered a lesson/classroom type video. Where the coach would talk about a topic for a bit, and then go into some examples.

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This brings up the fact of being aware how you learn best. And pretty much most of the methods are covered out there (except hands-on - hard to do online - but you can get someone to sweat you).

I have a hard tome with what I call the "accidental training" videos. Joe Pro/Coach sits down to play and boots up Camtasia to record his session. As situations come up he has about 2 minutes top to expound his vast knowledge before he's in another hand and different situation. These videos can run for hours in several different parts.

More power to you if you can grind through these.

One site that feeds bite sized topics and quizzes you as it goes is Deepstacks University. A nice selection of pros going through the stuff.

Poker VT has a good section of Negreanu doing stand up talking through concepts - but the resident pros do accidental training for the most part. And their "tech support" team is incredibly bad. They were consistently late on their money added tournament pay-outs as well.

Tournament Poker Edge is very good - but one of their best items is their podcast which you can get right off iTunes.

Coaching - I have yet to have a "great coaching" experience - and that's going through 5 different coaches. The last couple rambled on about stuff I didn't even want to talk about. None of them ever seemed to have any kind of plan. The best advice I ever got was taking a notebook with me and jotting down "trouble hands" for review. This had an immediate impact on my thought process.

For myself I have been getting more out of books - taking notes and HAND REVIEW is huge.

A training site will help you improve your game but you could also improve it by posting online about hands that you think you misplayed and see how everybody on here thinks you coud play them better.

Frict1992 said:

Depends dude on which site... I am learning poker and can honestly say that this training site called Cashinpoker R O C K S !!

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and what are you comparing it to?

PokerStars has a training school called PokerSchoolOnline which has tons of free material. Worth checking out but time spent at any site that offers good advice is time well spent in my opinion.

Post plenty of strategy related questions here too at Cardschat, every bit helps!

Raiser

Crushing The Microstakes - Highly Recommended!

Thanks again everyone. Really appreciate the tips. I've been working through Crushing the Microstakes and it's really helping. More below.

dan abnormal - I know exactly what you mean. I've read several books and at the time understand the concepts really well and really do mean to incorporate them into my game. Unfortunately in the heat of the moment it was all going out of the window and when I looked back at my hand histories saw that I was still making bad calls.

Goathair - How long have you been doing the Poker Zion course? I've heard some good reports about the course materials but haven't yet heard feedback on whether it's improved people's games/winrates.

MediaBlitz - Some great tips here - thanks! I really enjoy watching videos and have watched several of the HEM ones which I think come from Poker Zion and even watching old TV shows like High Stakes Poker has helped too I think. Like you, I find it really tough to watch someone talking through they game as they play on 24 tables. It's entertaining but don't think I leatn much. Interesting what you say about coaching. I'd imagine that they are all so different that it's quite difficult to find one that perfectly suits a person's learning style.

credsfan03 - Yes, I've posted some hands in the HA section of CC and it's been really helpful. I also find that by going over my biggest losing hand I can see where I've made mistakes. Truth is though that most of my mistakes I almost know I'm making them at the time I make that horrible call...

theroyalraiser - I've just started an account on PokerStars so will check out their training school. Thanks.

What's really helped me so far is Crushing the Microstakes. I know BlackRain79 posts here too so wanted to say a big thank you to Nathan. And I'd highly recommend the book. I've finished it now and already I'm making better decisions - and winning more pots. The biggest lessons for me have been a) getting disciplined and learning to fold when I know I'm beaten instead of making "crying calls" and b) extracting the most out of a hand when I know I'm ahead.

Once I've got those concepts totally ingrained and am "crushing" I will look at joining the training site/finding a coach. Another thing I have learned is to try and take things slowly...

It's been nearly 5 months now since I started poker and learned that a flush beats a straight but it's so much fun and I've enjoyed studying it so much that the time has just flown by. Must remember that I've got a long way to go and it's going to take a long time!

Hey guys, I would find a coach and mentor for sure. Someone you can trust and has a proven track record of crushing the games. I strongly recommend Elliot at [old link~tb] he's one of the most consistent winners at small stakes online and a great coach. Good luck at the tables.