Instincts Vs Math

C

Chandla

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Total posts
83
Chips
0
What is your style of play? i tend to lean more towards the math to make decisions. I am a winning player but i hear some people talking about knowing very little about the math side of poker and are still winning players just playing off their instincts. I will give the flush draw HORRIBLE pot odds on turn and have players calling off 80 percent of their stack with an 18 percent chance to hit and they still hit!
 
detroitjunkie

detroitjunkie

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 11, 2009
Total posts
826
Awards
4
Chips
0
Ask yourself, for lunch would you rather have the lobster or the cracked crab?

The point is the best players will use both styles. Math to figure out if the play is correct based on your reads (instincts) of what your opponent may have. A flush draw may be the correct play by the math, only if your opponent doesnt have a full house already, or a full house draw taking away one of your outs, or even a higher flush draw...etc...
 
acidburnfx

acidburnfx

Senior apprentice
Loyaler
Joined
May 18, 2013
Total posts
4,831
Awards
16
BR
Chips
1,233
This is the essence of the poker.

Keep calm and carry on. Don't worry of lose in case of hit the 8% of the adversary. Is useless to stay stressed with bad beats. ;)
 
Bogdan Pyts

Bogdan Pyts

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Total posts
595
Chips
0
only instinct just hardcore. so be it call my style
 
wilpinsi

wilpinsi

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 11, 2013
Total posts
1,321
Chips
0
I think when the game often lost with a flush draw
perhaps not correctly analyze the hand in question, or passed as a blind spot, and you find ahead one hand completes full house.
all depends on the time of your reading.
 
H

heraldyswift

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Total posts
101
Chips
0
For me, Both
I let the HUD do the math for me and i play with instinct
 
S

seghill

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Total posts
236
Chips
0
math basic but instinct comes from your observation and remembering the past which says either the player or situation make it worth the gamble.
 
SnGLearn

SnGLearn

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Total posts
24
Chips
0
When you're making a decision, you should always pay attention to:
- Notes
- Statistics
- tells
- Odds
- pot odds
- ICM
- etc.

You should take such a decision, which will be profitable in the long term.
 
ConDeck

ConDeck

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
Total posts
973
Chips
0
For me its definitely a combination of both. I learned the game while younger but didnt really get into it until I was about 17/18 playing in pubs/homegames etc then casinos and dabbling online. I did alright against those people I was playing using my instinct and things I picked up along the way. It was only when I started to take online seriously that I started to really study the game, it was at this point that I began to understand the math of poker. I started to implement this into my game and guess what, I started to lose money haha.I was justifying myself based on math in far to many spots. It was only over time that I began to find a balance between the two and really start to apply both that I started to see a significant improvement in my game and win rate.
 
Lubzhen

Lubzhen

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Total posts
113
Chips
0
I think for y successful in poker you need to first properly understand the actions of competitors. Of course you need to take into account the mathematics of poker. And listen and your intuition.
 
sergey ptz

sergey ptz

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
Total posts
171
Chips
0
Poker without mathematics is not a game adequate man can not live relying on instincts.
 
BiliousBetil

BiliousBetil

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Total posts
1,666
Awards
5
Chips
53
math basic but instinct comes from your observation and remembering the past which says either the player or situation make it worth the gamble.

This is an accurate observation. The reason we practice/study is to develop solid instincts.

Cheers!
 
ovidiu9b

ovidiu9b

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Total posts
290
Chips
0
if somebody goes all in from flop (for ex.) i actualy used bouth of them...like i do the math before and in situations like a posible straight or flush or both i call on instinct right...cuz the flop didn't give me the straight but i'm are sure i'll will make it
 
F

freestocks

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Total posts
2,351
Chips
0
Math is useful, instincts are usually right. Well, math is usually right too.
 
dobatibata

dobatibata

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Total posts
427
Chips
0
Yeah odd are important but impalpable, everything is a matter of mere coincidence - fortune, i usually go for intuition, and in some situations willpower helps me to hit a set, after calling for river card on missed flop, i go in my head come on 7! come on 7! and it does really :)
Waiting for flush? only up to the turn card. I do not chase flush up to the end. and of course it depends on raise too.

I can play bb with any 2 cards, i'm not playing strict poker, so yeah i guess i'm more instincts player.
 
J

johnnygadget

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Total posts
66
Chips
0
I play mostly with my gut/intuition and just ignore the math. I play every hand when the blinds are low, because I've learned that every hand can be a winner. 72, yeah, I'll see the flop and then make a judgement on how to play based on what flops and who I think I'm playing against. I don't care if they are holdng aa when I flop 2 pairs.
 
arizoney

arizoney

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Total posts
386
Awards
1
Chips
1
I feel they both play a part in each decisions and you cant have one without the other to achieve the goal as a winning player. The more experience of the game the more a person should see how they go hand in hand which is a way of developing instinct.
 
BiliousBetil

BiliousBetil

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Total posts
1,666
Awards
5
Chips
53
I play mostly with my gut/intuition and just ignore the math. I play every hand when the blinds are low, because I've learned that every hand can be a winner. 72, yeah, I'll see the flop and then make a judgement on how to play based on what flops and who I think I'm playing against. I don't care if they are holdng aa when I flop 2 pairs.

Interesting. If you use a program like Poker Tracker/Holdem Manager, parse your database for the times you've played 7-2 to showdown. I suspect the results will be illuminating.

Cheers!
 
A

AlbieTross

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Total posts
1,302
Awards
1
Chips
1
Sometimes it's just best to go with your gut.
 
T

Tosh_67

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Total posts
211
Awards
1
Chips
0
Great Question...

And of course it's not one or the other... Gut play is using some degree of math and conversely Math players will shift away from 'odds and percentages' when the situation dictates...

But in answering the question.... Pre Flop I will use a lot of Math regarding hand range/position etc... I suppose that applies to most

Post Flop I think is what separates good players from the rest... You need to employ both Math and Gut instinct... Some people will sway more to one or the other but I'm sure both qualities are applied by most players...

I think I'm 50/50 math/Instinct
 
S

Stone Cold Tom

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Total posts
45
Chips
0
Math + Gut = Good poker player. Although you can be good at the math even as a beginner but for that gut calls you need to analyze the players and some experience in the game.
 
Dorugremon

Dorugremon

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Total posts
456
Awards
1
Chips
19
I am a winning player but i hear some people talking about knowing very little about the math side of poker and are still winning players just playing off their instincts.

That may be what they claim, but it's never true. Oh sure, they're not there, banging away at a scientific calculator, but they certainly know the math. Draw at 100 flushes, and you have a pretty good idea on how often you'll hit, and whether or not it's worth calling to draw to make a flush.

You can't play without both: math and gut instinct. The former is pretty easy to learn, and the latter comes with experience and observation of the other players, when you're in pots with them and while you're waiting on the sidelines. Never stop paying attention because attention can pay nice dividends. That means closing all windows while playing on-line, and ignoring the TV sets blaring out the "Big Game" when playing a live venue. Those who don't are putting themselves at a major disadvantage to you.

I will give the flush draw HORRIBLE pot odds on turn and have players calling off 80 percent of their stack with an 18 percent chance to hit and they still hit!
These are fish; doing stuff like that is what makes them the fish they are. Yeah, last night I had pocket cowboys and set a short stacker all-in. He called with a 76-sooted, getting 2 : 1, and he hit it. He was not only taking very bad odds to draw, but he wasn't even drawing to the nuts. SUX losing with pocket kings, but no worry as he proceeded to unload all his winnings and then some. What else would you expect if he's gonna make such massively -EV plays? A yutz like that would be better off at the roulette tables where the worst he can take is 5.26% the worst of it (unless he bets the 5-line). If they want to gamble, fine by me. That they sometimes win is what keeps 'em comin' back and back and back. You just know these types are making weekly donations to their on-line accounts.
 
bitowl

bitowl

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Total posts
135
Chips
0
The deeper you are, the more instinct matters imo. Would the villian 3 barrel for value in a 3bet pot with QQ on 349J7? In theory there is some unexploitable calling range on the river but I don't think anyone knows it. Even assigning ranges so you can play the odds mathematically is instinct based.
 
Top