Implied Odds situational question

Hi,

Just a daft question about implied odds.

I just played a hand with JTs.

The flop was A6A two cards same suit as my JT.

I called a half pot size bet, which was met by player 3 so I got 1/3 odds (i think) so my call was right based on implied odds.

The turn card was mostly irrelevant and chip leader led out with a pot size bet (1600 chips). I folded because a) that was almost my total stack and b)the player after me only had 50 chips so I couldn't get the correct implied odds.

As it happened the river completed the flush I was after.

Purely based on the lack of implied odds did I make the correct call? Do implied odds cease to exist if remaining stacks are low compared to bet sizes?

Thanks

I dont know mate but I will bump this post up so someone who is qualified can answer

Caesura said:

Hi,

Just a daft question about implied odds.

I just played a hand with JTs.

The flop was A6A two cards same suit as my JT.

I called a half pot size bet, which was met by player 3 so I got 1/3 odds (i think) so my call was right based on implied odds.

Click to expand...

You would probably get a better response if you posted a proper hand history so we can see stack sizes, positions, preflop action etc but I'll give it a go since no-one else has.

You can't factor player 3 into the odds calculation because you didn't know what he was going to do. He might have folded, and as you mention later he had a puny stack, so lets discount him.

I would say you probably didn't have the correct implied odds to call here. Against one opponent you get 3:1 odds to call a 1/2 pot bet, yet your chances of hitting your flush on the next street are only 5:1. In addition, you may not get any further betting/action if you call and the flush draw hits causing your opponent to shut down.

So calling doesn't seem good, so why not raise? This could be a good flop to raise as a semi-bluff, you might get folds from 6x hands and 77-KK pocket pairs and any other random shit that he may be c-betting.

Caesura said:

Do implied odds cease to exist if remaining stacks are low compared to bet sizes?

Click to expand...

I don't know if they cease to exist lol but it is a mistake to play speculative hands against small stacks because the implied odds aren't great enough.

In cash games, calling 3bets to setmine vs single opponents when 100BB deep is often a mistake because you don't have the implied odds to make the call, but if you are 200BB deep then you have good enough implied odds. So, yes, stack sizes matter.

Good bump. Thank you

Appreciate the responses. Can't find the 888 hand histories on my computer which is why I couldn't post them up. I probably should never have been in there anyway as I called a 4x preflop raise with JTs (though it was part of a bigger plan ie playing suited connectors).
Furthermore the winner had AJ so would probably have called any bet as it was a SNG

it depends on where your at at that point

Caesura said:

Hi,

Just a daft question about implied odds.

I just played a hand with JTs.

The flop was A6A two cards same suit as my JT.

I called a half pot size bet, which was met by player 3 so I got 1/3 odds (i think) so my call was right based on implied odds.

The turn card was mostly irrelevant and chip leader led out with a pot size bet (1600 chips). I folded because a) that was almost my total stack and b)the player after me only had 50 chips so I couldn't get the correct implied odds.

As it happened the river completed the flush I was after.

Purely based on the lack of implied odds did I make the correct call? Do implied odds cease to exist if remaining stacks are low compared to bet sizes?

Thanks

Click to expand...

thinking of where your at at that point ive been deep in the freerolls and i do just the oppisite always ask is there a better spot to get my money all in.

deeshark420 said:

thinking of where your at at that point ive been deep in the freerolls and i do just the oppisite always ask is there a better spot to get my money all in.

Click to expand...

Right, if I've got 6bb and my cards are 55, do I shove or wait an orbit and hope for higher cards (not the same as OP but still a relevant question)?

Caesura said:

Right, if I've got 6bb and my cards are 55, do I shove or wait an orbit and hope for higher cards (not the same as OP but still a relevant question)?

Click to expand...

Read up on M-ratio / M-value. It's a way to assess your stack size compared to the blinds and antes, and take risks accordingly to avoid being blinded out.

Will depend on your position. With 6bb your M value is less than 5 so 55 is certainly a shove from late position, probably from early position too.

Caesura said:

Hi,

Just a daft question about implied odds.

I just played a hand with JTs.

The flop was A6A two cards same suit as my JT.

I called a half pot size bet, which was met by player 3 so I got 1/3 odds (i think) so my call was right based on implied odds.

The turn card was mostly irrelevant and chip leader led out with a pot size bet (1600 chips). I folded because a) that was almost my total stack and b)the player after me only had 50 chips so I couldn't get the correct implied odds.

As it happened the river completed the flush I was after.

Purely based on the lack of implied odds did I make the correct call? Do implied odds cease to exist if remaining stacks are low compared to bet sizes?

Thanks

Click to expand...

I think it is rarely that you would be factoring in the chips of someone yet to act on that round.
The usual interpretation of implied odds is to calculate in the extra chips that you may be able to win if you do hit your hand.

In this case your hand is not very well disguised so you can't really be very confident of getting more chips in on the turn if your suit hits—your opponent with just trips Aces may well shut down leaving you with no implied odds.

Also, and perhaps more importantly, is that in this hand you should be factoring in reverse implied odds—this is the amount of chips you can expect to lose if you do hit your hand!

Your opponent could have 66 or A6, and you are already drawing dead (virtually) and facing a big loss if you hit your flush.
Further, he/she may have Ax and hit their kicker, or have the board pair.
Or, of course, they may have one or two of the suited cards that would beat your J (K and/or Q)

These are difficult things to work out as they are based on speculating about how future streets will pan out but addressing only the actual question of 'implied odds', I would say that your reverse implied odds are much greater than any implied odds that you actually have.

Thanks
I really shouldn't have been in this hand anyway. It just rose the question of implied odds that it seems I misunderstood. I'll have a reread and familiarise myself with it.

micromachine said:

Read up on M-ratio / M-value. It's a way to assess your stack size compared to the blinds and antes, and take risks accordingly to avoid being blinded out.

Will depend on your position. With 6bb your M value is less than 5 so 55 is certainly a shove from late position, probably from early position too.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll have a look at this too