I need to re-valuate the way I'm playing. Help!

Misofer · Jan 12, 2011

Hello CC members. Basically I'm lost and I'd appreciate some guidance.

I really don't know where to start to improve my game. I started playing Texas Hold 'em with my friends, felt in love with the game, then I started to play online to get more practice but I knew that's wasn't enough.

I always play at Fulltilt, been playing A LOT of freerolls to be able to have a bankroll. I've won some of them, a couple of bucks actually and lost everything at the tables because I was not following a proper BR management (Even though some might consider 6-7 dollars aren't exactly a Bankroll) So another day, I won this freeroll and I cashed a decent amount about 15 dollars, then decided to follow Chris Ferguson's BR management and work out for me. I've been playing lately a lot of Superturbo's Sit&go's for 1.10 9-handed, Sattys for 30c to Daily Dollar, along with 9-handed ring games at the lowest limit and some Rush poker,turned those 15 dls into $50.

Now that I've a "decent" BR I want to study all that I can about the game, but I don't know where to start. I know some things, some terms, but I never knew where to start, i don't even use any software to keep track on people or me. I'll be glad to have some help, I know that I didn't post any kind of info. about the type of player that I am, I like to think of myself as I TAG player.

Thank you in advance,
Fernando.

Marginal · Jan 12, 2011

Well the first bit of advice I could give to anyone looking to get better is to post Hand Histories in the Hand History forums. You will get some good responses as to where to make improvements in certain hands. You can also look into reading some of the posts around the forums. There is good content here and just searching around for different concepts can be helpful. Also going over other peoples Hand Histories in the Hand History forums would also give you a good idea where your thinking matches up with others.

It is really hard to give you more specific information than that. Just search around the forums, interact with other members and try to have good discussion and in no time you can see improvements.

Good luck.

TheKAAHK · Jan 12, 2011

In what particualr aspect do you think you need the most work? Hand selection in correlation with position? Bet sizing and tailoring your bets to different boards/opponents? Reading board textures?

Give us a bit of a starting point and I'm sure we can help you out.

Misofer · Jan 12, 2011

Thanks both for the quick response. I'll definitely look into Hand histories marginal. I really don't know where to find my own history of hands that is recent. The only webpage I know is pokertableratings and is not updated or it doesn't have enough hands on this last days (since i've playing mostly SitnGo's)

TheKAAHK, I have some knowledge in different aspects, but reality is that I don't know much about the game like I should. Hand selection in correlation with position i don't believe is a problem, but sometimes I don't know how much to bet, is my bet size adequate? how much should i be value betting?
I always take in consideration what the pot size is and that if I make a bet larger than the pot, then that would be consider over-betting the pot, which I rarely do unless I know i have the nuts or a really strong hand.
What do you mean be reading board textures?

Marginal · Jan 12, 2011

Since you are on fulltiltpoker. In options there is a place where you can go that will automatically send your hand histories to a folder on your computer. I can remember exactly where to find it but just go through the toolbar at the top of the page.

Board textures deal with in lehmanns terms, the board. How the board looks. Like if it is Ace King 2 with all cards of the same suite. What he is refering to is to look at the board and see what is good for you, what is good for your opponent and basing your decisions on that.

Misofer · Jan 12, 2011

marginal said:
Since you are on fulltiltpoker. In options there is a place where you can go that will automatically send your hand histories to a folder on your computer. I can remember exactly where to find it but just go through the toolbar at the top of the page.

Board textures deal with in lehmanns terms, the board. How the board looks. Like if it is Ace King 2 with all cards of the same suite. What he is refering to is to look at the board and see what is good for you, what is good for your opponent and basing your decisions on that.

Thank you marginal I'll look into my hand history.

But about the board textures you need to take a lot in account isn't?
What type of player is your opponent? do we have any card of that suit to call/raise a bet from villain? do we have odds to be calling/raising? I still have a lot to learn

Marginal · Jan 12, 2011

Misofer said:
Thank you marginal I'll look into my hand history.

But about the board textures you need to take a lot in account isn't?
What type of player is your opponent? do we have any card of that suit to call/raise a bet from villain? do we have odds to be calling/raising? I still have a lot to learn

Exactly and there are even more factors than those. You'll get there. Just stick around and be willing to learn

TheKAAHK · Jan 12, 2011

marginal said:
Since you are on fulltiltpoker. In options there is a place where you can go that will automatically send your hand histories to a folder on your computer. I can remember exactly where to find it but just go through the toolbar at the top of the page.

Board textures deal with in lehmanns terms, the board. How the board looks. Like if it is Ace King 2 with all cards of the same suite. What he is refering to is to look at the board and see what is good for you, what is good for your opponent and basing your decisions on that.

To save your hand histories: Main Lobby - Options Tab - Hand History - click on 'Save Hand History' in top left corner of the info box.

Indeed. Not only that, but one must try to put your opponent on a gange of hands that they might be playing from their respective position. Say you are facing a tight opponent raising from UTG. Generally their range will be 1010+, A10s+, AQo, AKo. Now if you call with AJo and the board is A 10 7, and they lead out, you can be assured that you are, in most situations beat as large aces make up alot of their range.

Same sceanrio, but now a loose fishy type player makes the same raise. Same board. Their range likely hold alot of Ace rag type hands, Q10, QJ, KQ, KJ, mid to large PP's. On that board your AJ is ahead of most of their range.

Of course observation will help you assume your opponents range, and tenedecies better. Throughout the hand, pay attention to their bets (size, timing) to better guage their range on each street.

Basically, you want to be paying attention to your opponents and mentally figuring ranges while you are not involved in hands with them so you have a better idea of where you stand against them when you are involved in a pot with them.

The OP in this thread is a good read. It will help give you some understanding on the what and why of betting and range: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/why-you-betting-189182/

Misofer · Jan 12, 2011

marginal said:
Exactly and there are even more factors than those. You'll get there. Just stick around and be willing to learn

Thank you. Do you recommend any book or thread to get started? I'm gonna be looking threads around here and at DC.com. Also since I play SitNGo's most of the time, what kind of reading material would you recommend?

I REALLY appreciate all your help marginal

Marginal · Jan 12, 2011

Im not the most adept when it comes to poker books but I dont think it is entirely necessary. Reading around different forums (especially on DC) will get you the knowledge you need.

Misofer · Jan 12, 2011

TheKAAHK said:
To save your hand histories: Main Lobby - Options Tab - Hand History - click on 'Save Hand History' in top left corner of the info box.

Indeed. Not only that, but one must try to put your opponent on a gange of hands that they might be playing from their respective position. Say you are facing a tight opponent raising from UTG. Generally their range will be 1010+, A10s+, AQo, AKo. Now if you call with AJo and the board is A 10 7, and they lead out, you can be assured that you are, in most situations beat as large aces make up alot of their range.

Same sceanrio, but now a loose fishy type player makes the same raise. Same board. Their range likely hold alot of Ace rag type hands, Q10, QJ, KQ, KJ, mid to large PP's. On that board your AJ is ahead of most of their range.

Of course observation will help you assume your opponents range, and tenedecies better. Throughout the hand, pay attention to their bets (size, timing) to better guage their range on each street.

Basically, you want to be paying attention to your opponents and mentally figuring ranges while you are not involved in hands with them so you have a better idea of where you stand against them when you are involved in a pot with them.

The OP in this thread is a good read. It will help give you some understanding on the what and why of betting and range: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/why-you-betting-189182/

Thank you sir! I didn't have that option marked

About the ranges, I have little info. about that, I would say that in order for me to know more about ranges like you said one most pay attention to their opponents, actions, bet sizing, what kind of hands the usually plays, but for that I would need to write notes isn't? or perhaps download some kind of software to keep track of all of those things which I don't have.

I do everything that you mention mentally while I'm playing, I put people in hands based on the way the have been playing and sometimes is just a hunch or a wild guess.

I'm gonna read that thread as we speak, thanks again TheKAAHK!

Marginal · Jan 12, 2011

The better software may be a little expensive for you (like 55$) but yeah, taking notes is the best think you could do right now. I know mental might work but you may forget key hands that can change your opinion of someone's play.

mrmonkey · Jan 12, 2011

Another thing to consider is what your best game is. When you turned your $15 to $50, it sounded like you were dipping into a lot of different types of games. Which of those made you the most money? Which did you like the best?

When first grinding out a new roll, it's best to stick to one game and try to master it as best as possible. Once you have mastered it and it is bringing in steady growth over like 25,000+ hands, then you can start dipping into the kitty and taking shots at other games to see if there's something even more profitable or enjoyable.

I would AVOID rush at first on such a small roll, particularly since the minimum buyin is $5 (100bb), which is not really responsible for your $50 roll in my opinion.

SNG rake at the $1 level is pretty atrocious (20% rake for normal games), and super-turbo are super high variance which is also dangerous for a small bankroll.

My recommendation, if you are showing good profit there and enjoy the game, is to stick to full ring 2nl cash games. Multitable when you feel comfortable taking notes and start getting bored with just one table open. Always buy in for a full 100bb. Multi-table if you feel comfortable doing so. TAG style works well in full ring.

Keep playing in freerolls to boost your bankroll. It will also help breakup the monotony of grinding FR 2nl. Find good freerolls that actually make it worthwhile to play (NOT the 7,500 entry public $150 donkaments, those are terrible). Find good private and promotional freerolls that are like $5000 prizepool for 1500 entrants, or cardschat freerolls which are like $200 for 130 entrants.

It's good you are focusing on improving your game at the tables, and marginal and others are giving good advice above. It's also important to consider what games to play and to make a plan for making your bankroll grow.

Misofer · Jan 12, 2011

mrmonkey said:
Another thing to consider is what your best game is. When you turned your $15 to $50, it sounded like you were dipping into a lot of different types of games. Which of those made you the most money? Which did you like the best?

When first grinding out a new roll, it's best to stick to one game and try to master it as best as possible. Once you have mastered it and it is bringing in steady growth over like 25,000+ hands, then you can start dipping into the kitty and taking shots at other games to see if there's something even more profitable or enjoyable.

I would AVOID rush at first on such a small roll, particularly since the minimum buyin is $5 (100bb), which is not really responsible for your $50 roll in my opinion.

SNG rake at the $1 level is pretty atrocious (20% rake for normal games), and super-turbo are super high variance which is also dangerous for a small bankroll.

My recommendation, if you are showing good profit there and enjoy the game, is to stick to full ring 2nl cash games. Multitable when you feel comfortable taking notes and start getting bored with just one table open. Always buy in for a full 100bb. Multi-table if you feel comfortable doing so. TAG style works well in full ring.

Keep playing in freerolls to boost your bankroll. It will also help breakup the monotony of grinding FR 2nl. Find good freerolls that actually make it worthwhile to play (NOT the 7,500 entry public $150 donkaments, those are terrible). Find good private and promotional freerolls that are like $5000 prizepool for 1500 entrants, or cardschat freerolls which are like $200 for 130 entrants.

It's good you are focusing on improving your game at the tables, and marginal and others are giving good advice above. It's also important to consider what games to play and to make a plan for making your bankroll grow.

Thank you for the advice mrmonkey. I forgot to mention that after I won that private Freeroll and got the $15 dls, I won another freeroll, end up in like 4-5th place and won $9 dlls so that helped a lot. (Yes, the 7500 people freerolls and the one from my country).

Actually almost all of my bankroll (besides freerolls) comes from Superturbos SitNGo's for $1.10, ironically I used to hate those because I know that they have a high variance like you mentioned (I've play 4 of them in a row before without cashing) I was used to play 2NL 9-handed ring tables but it seems boring right now because I'm playing a lot of Superturbos and I'm getting used to them. (even though I'm probably doing something wrong and detrimental for my bankroll)

I'm gonna try and find some more freerolls, and re-apply on CC's freeroll here. Gonna have to get the hang on ring tables once again, of course the gain from those is not gonna be as notable as winning 1st place on a SitNGo

mrmonkey · Jan 12, 2011

Misofer said:
Actually almost all of my bankroll (besides freerolls) comes from Superturbos SitNGo's for $1.10, ironically I used to hate those because I know that they have a high variance like you mentioned (I've play 4 of them in a row before without cashing) I was used to play 2NL 9-handed ring tables but it seems boring right now because I'm playing a lot of Superturbos and I'm getting used to them. (even though I'm probably doing something wrong and detrimental for my bankroll)

I'm gonna try and find some more freerolls, and re-apply on CC's freeroll here. Gonna have to get the hang on ring tables once again, of course the gain from those is not gonna be as notable as winning 1st place on a SitNGo

Well, I'd say that no one bankroll strategy is perfect for everyone. I think if you are winning the super turbo SNGs, then stick with it. 50 buyins is probably a little small for superturbos, but if you're crushing them then just keep doing what you are doing. If you run into a downswing at some point, you may want to re-evaluate -- like if you lose half your bankroll or something -- but if you keep winning just stick with it.

I'd also say that if you are crushing the superturbos, they can be a great way to very quickly run your bankroll up. I don't have a lot of information on improving or beating superturbos, but I'm sure there's some stuff out there (like Chris Ferguson's full tilt poker academy session video).

One thing in regards to superturbos though -- they are probably great for building a bankroll if you do well in them, but to better your overall poker game will require playing something else in the future.

TheKAAHK · Jan 12, 2011

Misofer said:
Thank you sir! I didn't have that option marked

About the ranges, I have little info. about that, I would say that in order for me to know more about ranges like you said one most pay attention to their opponents, actions, bet sizing, what kind of hands the usually plays, but for that I would need to write notes isn't? or perhaps download some kind of software to keep track of all of those things which I don't have.

I do everything that you mention mentally while I'm playing, I put people in hands based on the way the have been playing and sometimes is just a hunch or a wild guess.

I'm gonna read that thread as we speak, thanks again TheKAAHK!

Notes are always a good idea.

The more experience you acquire overall, the easier it will be to get a baseline feel for expected ranges in different positions by different player types. Then you can further fine tune these ranges based on specific actions you have observed against them.

If you see something strange from a player such as usually limping big hands early instead of raising, or limping weak hands, raising small with middle hands, always check/calling flush draws etc., make a note. Many players will noot change their habits during the course of a game and if this situation comes up again you'll be ready for it. These notes are good, esp if you are playing many tables at once, or are in an MTT and run into this player down the line.

As far as software goes, it is available, but not necessary. Just pay attention, take some notes and you'll be amazed at how much info will just sink in.

Misofer · Jan 13, 2011

I gonna start with the notes asap TheKAAHK, gonna be a little more specific on the notes too.
I guess I'll stick to Superturbos SitNGo's mrmonkey to see how it goes and probably play ring games ocasionally, gonna start reading a lot of threads too. Thanks everyone for the responses

I need to re-valuate the way I'm playing. Help!

Misofer

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Marginal

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