I dont understand how poker can be profitable

J

JR1987

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I have been pondering for a month or so now how it's possible that people exist that can actually make profit from the game.

I can grind slow wins for a week maybe half a buy in here and there. Then in less than an hour it all just evaporates plus more on 2 or 3 consecutive coolers.

It's like taking one step forward then 2 steps back.

The worst part is that your best hands are always the ones that you loose the most on it seems.

Then you have the rake to contend with too.

I just dont get how someone can beat variance, rake, bad beats and make big consistant profit. :confused:
 
terryk

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If it was easy,,everyone would do it. :rolleyes:
 
S

samsonand

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for a person who does not know how to play well and only seeks to win immediately it will never be profitable but for a person who knows statistics and management could go far and add more to his personal account in each game
 
DougPkrMonsta

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It is more profitable when you have a bigger edge against your opponents for one thing.

Put in the time to learn solid fundamentals, practice and learn from your mistakes, and eventually you will be well above your opponents and in a position to win long-term.

Experience is one of the most valuable assets in poker: while others struggle to figure out what to do in a hand or certain situation, you will have been there before and instinctively know the right play.

Good luck! :D
 
Joe

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It boils down to the expected value formula.

If you can consistently put your chips in the middle in +EV spots, you will profit in the long-term.

It's as simple as that.

The difficulty comes in being experienced enough to estimate the data blanks (unknowns) closely enough in real-time to accurately assess whether any given spot is +/-EV.

Irrespective of variance, the rake, bad beats- mathematically you will profit if you can do this.
 
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CallmeFloppy

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I don't understand how some people make so much money in such a short time on the stock market, but people do it.
 
azforlife

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Just gotta pick your games & stakes
 
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dianasamu245

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For this poker to be profitable, the main thing to invest is time to do study sessions apply what you have learned in cash sessions or tournaments patience control the tild never think about money if not to do the right thing and correct details on the fly
 
eberetta1

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If I was trying to make a profit in poker, I would be doing whatever it takes to get a sponsor. That's where the dollars are if you weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth
 
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fundiver199

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It depends, what you mean by profit. Its pretty easy to make 100$ per month, if you learn the fundamentals of the game, put in at least some volume and have a bankroll of 500$ or more. Consistently making 1.000$ per month is much more difficult already. Take Cardschats "become a winning poker player in 30 days", if you have not done it already.
 
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ph_il

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i play microstakes mtts and the way i make a profit is by focusing on making the top 3 spots.

personally, min-cashing in mtts doesn't matter. nor do small money jumps and even making the final table as far as the bottom 4-5 spots are concerned as the payouts received are minuscule compared to what top 3 makes. that's not to say cashing isn't important, it's just that it isn't my main focus. also, i'm cashing in mtts anyways, i don't need to focus or worry about it. i'm never afraid to bubble an mtt or miss out on a pay jump or even miss out on making the final table if i'm in a strong +ev spot where i can build a big stack.

my focus is on chip accumulation > mtt survival because mtt survival does not matter as much as some might think it does. lets say i play an mtt where top 35/200 players get paid. does it matter if i bust out in 200th place or 36th place in a +ev spot where i can build a big stack? no, because payout is still $0. does it matter if i bust out in 35th or 10th place in a +ev spot where i can build a big stack? no, because payout difference is going to be very small compared to where i can finish with a much bigger stack.

the idea that lasting as long as you can has some merit is just incorrect. in some specific situations, mtt survival is important but, for the most part, there isn't much value in it. especially when i see or read about players that give up such great spots to build a stack because they think 'if i lose, i'm out but if i fold, i can last a lot longer.'. what good is 'lasting longer' if you're going to make it deep with no chips?

lets say a player is in a situation where they have 20 bbs with jj and can get it in preflop, but they think they can fold it and make it to the final table if they just wait because it's only 25 spots away. and lets say they do make it to the final table but with only 2 bbs. what good is the mtt survival if you're at the final table with 2 bbs? the payouts between 9th and 10th is very small and the fact that they made the final table with 2 bbs doesn't mean much. wow, top 9 w/ no bbs, great job!

now, lets say that player decides to make the big risk and double up with jj. lets even say they run into qq+. quite unlucky, right? well, yes but they're still winning 1/5 times in that situation and doubling up to 40+ bbs. and now, when they make the final table, they enter it with 30+ bbs instead of just 2 bbs. which situation do you think gives this player the better chance of making top 3 at the final table, having 30 bbs or having 2 bbs? it isn't rocket surgery to know that, even if they risk busting out 4/5 times, that 1/5 times they double up and make the final table with a bigger stack increases their chances of making top 3 a ton. this is why i focus on accumulating chips and building stacks instead of mtt survival because i don't mind giving up small cashes, small pay jumps to set myself up to have a better chance at finishing in the top 3 payouts.

moving on, lets look at some basic stats. lets say my itm is 25%, that means i'm only cashing in 25/100 mtts. since my focus is on top 3, i'm making that 12% of time or 3/25 mtts i cash. or 3/100 mtts i play.

lets say top 3 pays:
  • 1st: $75
  • 2nd: $50
  • 3rd: $25
lets say i play 100* $1.10 mtts = $110. even if i only cash in 3/100 mtts and make each top 3 places in each cash, i'm still making a profit of $40 because top 3 pays so much that it makes up for other 97 mtts i didn't cash in. however, this isn't how it usually happens and i'm cashing in another 22 mtts which only increases my profits. i might make some deep runs in a few cashes, maybe even make a few final tables and bust out in bottom 5 places, but that's just adding a cushion to the bankroll and increasing my profits. even if i only min-cashed in the other 22 mtts for $2.20, i'm essentially only paying for 66 mtt buy-ins or $72.60 in buy-ins, which gives me $77.40 in profits.

so, cashing does have it's benefits as it basically eases the hits my bankroll is going to take because, again, i'm busting out of 75/100 mtts i play with no money. however, no amount of min-cashing or even making a few deep runs is going to net me the profit i can expect from making top 3. at best, i might break even or make a small profit if i'm able to have a higher itm%, but higher itm% isn't very sustainable in the long run.

finally, game selection is important as mtts are variance heavy. i do better in smaller field mtts than i do larger ones for the obvious reason, less variance. but there is a give and take, smaller fields will have smaller prize pools and payouts and larger fields will have bigger payouts, but it's much harder to make top 3. another thing to consider is larger field games take much longer to play than shorter ones. you also have to consider game structure as well. deep stacks and long blinds will last longer than smaller starting stacks and fast blinds, but will have less variance. so, it's important to pick what game mode is correct for you.

i personally like deeper stacks with standard blinds with short late registration and smaller fields. my top 3 payouts might be smaller, but they take much less time to complete and the field is much easier to get through.
 
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TeUnit

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Poker is not profitable for most players, but like RATT says, "what you give is what you get" or the harder you work the better you will do.
 
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BatOneHat

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You didn't describe your style of play. As a new player, you should be playing very tight and only the top 26% or so of hands. And yes, you will lose some of those hands and hand you folded will hit. But over all, that is the best starting technique. Also, you should be playing to learn and for fun and at very low stakes, until you start winning.
 
lattedank

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That's why something like bankroll managment exists. If you play good poker and you have a good bankroll managment, you're gonna be profitable. Simple as that. You know why casino make money? Because they always have an edge on the players, thats why they make money long term.
 
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