How taking notes helps

S

Sneaky Feet

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So I had only had a couple sessions on this guy but had noted that he was a fish that bluffs a lot with air and is aggressive. Turns out the notes worked pretty well!

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

UTG+1 ($4.73)
MP1 ($4.62)
Hero (MP2) ($2)
MP3 ($1.86)
CO ($1)
Button ($0.90)
SB ($0.80)
BB ($4.02)
UTG ($2.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A
spade.gif
, 4
diamond.gif

3 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, 3 folds, SB calls $0.05, BB calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.20) 3
heart.gif
, 9
diamond.gif
, 2
heart.gif
(3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.18, Hero raises to $0.36, 1 fold, BB calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.92) 8
club.gif
(2 players)
BB bets $0.44, Hero calls $0.44

River: ($1.80) 6
diamond.gif
(2 players)
BB bets $0.86, Hero calls $0.86

Total pot: $3.52 | Rake: $0.12

Results below:
BB had 10
club.gif
, J
spade.gif
(high card, Jack).
Hero had A
spade.gif
, 4
diamond.gif
(high card, Ace).
Outcome: Hero won $3.40
 
S

Sneaky Feet

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Here's another hand not 10 minutes later. I really didn't understand this one. I'm going to search villain tonight and add another note "doesn't fold to anything!"

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

UTG+1 ($4.97)
MP1 ($9.36)
Hero (MP2) ($3.65)
CO ($1.14)
Button ($0.80)
SB ($3.45)
BB ($1.31)
UTG ($2.16)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A
heart.gif
, 2
club.gif

3 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, 1 fold, Button calls $0.06, 1 fold, BB calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.19) A
club.gif
, 10
spade.gif
, 9
heart.gif
(3 players)
BB bets $0.08, Hero raises to $0.32, 1 fold, BB calls $0.24

Turn: ($0.83) 4
spade.gif
(2 players)
BB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $0.94, BB calls $0.53 (All-In)

River: ($2.69) 10
diamond.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $2.69 | Rake: $0.09

Results below:
BB had 7
heart.gif
, J
club.gif
(one pair, tens).
Hero had A
heart.gif
, 2
club.gif
(two pair, Aces and tens).
Outcome: Hero won $2.60
 
Last edited:
Keith_MM

Keith_MM

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both hands should have been folded pre , and are pretty much potentially pure spew. hand1 why bloat the pot with the flop raise. if you're gonna be calling an aggro player down its an idea to do it with a hand ...not 4 outs to a draw.

hand 2 . do you have any idea what dominated hands are? At 2nl most fish will not fold Ax pre. the downside of this is that any ace has you outkicked and you are willing to stack off with it
 
Fknife

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both hands should have been folded pre , and are pretty much potentially pure spew.
C'mon dont be such a nit :) He's clearly showing that he knows what he's doing so...why not. If it works and he is sure that he has strong reads, than good for him. If I have a player who I know that I can outplay (eg: he's playing fit-fold, folds to a double barrel on scary turn card etc) I'm willing to play as many pots with him as possible with pretty much any decent holding. At the end of the day, its about playing the player not the cards, isn't it? :)
 
U

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fold pre, notes don't help if your playing weak hands.
 
vinylspiros

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both hands should have been folded pre , and are pretty much potentially pure spew. hand1 why bloat the pot with the flop raise. if you're gonna be calling an aggro player down its an idea to do it with a hand ...not 4 outs to a draw.

hand 2 . do you have any idea what dominated hands are? At 2nl most fish will not fold Ax pre. the downside of this is that any ace has you outkicked and you are willing to stack off with it



+1
 
Blobweird123

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Yup snap folds pre. And both flop raises are bad. Just spewy all around sorry.
 
S

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I can assure you that against a better player both these hands would be played quite differently but against the villain I was playing I was quite comfortable pushing forward. :)
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

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I can assure you that against a better player both these hands would be played quite differently but against the villain I was playing I was quite comfortable pushing forward. :)



fighting fire with fire isnt ever going to work. Beat him with a hand. Dont go down to playing junk just because he is. Junk is junk.


All advice is well intended my man.
 
S

Sneaky Feet

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fold pre, notes don't help if your playing weak hands.

I have to disagree with you here. I'm find that my notes are imperative to winning more hands. I can post another hand on here that was against another villian that I've played 3 sessions with. In those sessions I've noted that villain doesn't like being 3 bet. Sure enough last night when I 3bet him (with complete garbage) he folded. Know your opponent then play your cards. That's what I've been learning a lot about lately.
 
S

Sneaky Feet

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As played

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

MP3 ($4.91)
CO ($9.33)
Hero (Button) ($4.83)
SB ($1.07)
BB ($1.14)
UTG ($0.97)
UTG+1 ($3.45)
MP1 ($2)
MP2 ($2.19)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q
diamond.gif
, 9
heart.gif

4 folds, MP3 raises to $0.06, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.24, 3 folds

Total pot: $0.15 | Rake: $0

Results below:
Hero didn't show Q
diamond.gif
, 9
heart.gif
.
 
Keith_MM

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C'mon dont be such a nit :)
i can assure you that i'm no nit , but you are showing you don't have any idea how to play either.
He's clearly showing that he knows what he's doing so...why not. If it works and he is sure that he has strong reads, than good for him.
Rubbish , this is clearly a results orientated OP and ignoring the fundamental flaws in his strategy.
If I have a player who I know that I can outplay (eg: he's playing fit-fold, folds to a double barrel on scary turn card etc) I'm willing to play as many pots with him as possible with pretty much any decent holding.
i agree, where we disagree is Ace high being a decent holding. Is he still posting these hands when he shows down and loses to 5th pair. Have you heard of small hand small pot, big hand big pot. STacking off with a really weak hand is a recipe for going bust not for crushing the stakes.
At the end of the day, its about playing the player not the cards, isn't it? :)
yeah .....so let him barrel off his stack when you have a hand , not when you are praying that he doesn't have one.If you're in an early position play stronger hands so that you are less likely to be dominated.
 
Keith_MM

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I have to disagree with you here. I'm find that my notes are imperative to winning more hands. I can post another hand on here that was against another villian that I've played 3 sessions with. In those sessions I've noted that villain doesn't like being 3 bet. Sure enough last night when I 3bet him (with complete garbage) he folded. Know your opponent then play your cards. That's what I've been learning a lot about lately.

sure you won that hand , but you are being results orientated. You aren't going to post the hands where SB and BB then use your lose 3bet stats against you and 4bet you pre. You are getting into bloated pots with junk.You are playing 2nl where villains typically don't fold to 3bets , call too much . You will crush these stakes by value betting your made hands and getting stacks in with them, You will struggle at 2nl if you keep trying to bluff your opponents. Once you start to move up you will get murdered by more aggressive players playing more appropriate positional ranges.

2 and 5nl are about learning to value bet , 10nl you need to start understanding your 3betting , 25 nl you need to start learning about 4 betting and 3betting light. These higher stakes are where you have to start bluffing to balance out your ranges and you can bluff because people start folding. in this hand you are targetting the guy who doesn't like being 3bet and completely ignoring the other two guys still to act. You haven't planned for them calling or shoving.
 
S

Sneaky Feet

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sure you won that hand , but you are being results orientated. You aren't going to post the hands where SB and BB then use your lose 3bet stats against you and 4bet you pre. You are getting into bloated pots with junk.You are playing 2nl where villains typically don't fold to 3bets , call too much . You will crush these stakes by value betting your made hands and getting stacks in with them, You will struggle at 2nl if you keep trying to bluff your opponents. Once you start to move up you will get murdered by more aggressive players playing more appropriate positional ranges.

2 and 5nl are about learning to value bet , 10nl you need to start understanding your 3betting , 25 nl you need to start learning about 4 betting and 3betting light. These higher stakes are where you have to start bluffing to balance out your ranges and you can bluff because people start folding. in this hand you are targetting the guy who doesn't like being 3bet and completely ignoring the other two guys still to act. You haven't planned for them calling or shoving.

Thanks for your input. My goal is to move up in stakes. My year goal is to get to 10nl so I know I've got a lot of work ahead of me. I do appreciate your comments regarding the differences between 2/5nl and 25nl I've been very curious about this as 2nl isn't much of a challenge most days. I don't have time to play a lot my bankroll grows slowly but I'm getting there and am excited to try 5nl with a proper bank roll behind me.
 
Fknife

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you are showing you don't have any idea how to play either.
Well I'm still learning :)

i agree, where we disagree is Ace high being a decent holding.
No, I have never said that Ace high is a decent holding.


yeah .....so let him barrel off his stack when you have a hand , not when you are praying that he doesn't have one.If you're in an early position play stronger hands so that you are less likely to be dominated.
What I'm saying is that Table Dynamics "shapes" actual ranges playable from each position and also creates "strategy".

Many players recommend "tight strategy" for mikro stakes not because its a great, ultimate winning strategy but because Table Dynamics on mikros makes it more or less profitable. It comes from the assumption that there are lots of players, who will call too much, so there will be lots of showdowns so Hey! we might just play hands that have an edge when it comes to making good holdings and get paid. But if you play at the table full of NIT's and TAGish players (still on mikro stakes!), will this "strategy" still be profitable? The "hand edge" gets smaller and players practically know each other's strategies (because they use the same one!) so...

Its like having NITs on blinds who fold to steal 90% of time. Does it matter if I open A4o, 39o or AA? No! They will still fold 90% of time and its like printing money. Agree?
 
vinylspiros

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Wake up call guys. If your definition of outplaying someone is making them fold air with air then you are headed towards disaster.

Out playing means, having a better hand and making them pay you. Keep that in mind if you want to be a winning player and leave the magic for television.
 
S

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Wake up call guys. If your definition of outplaying someone is making them fold air with air then you are headed towards disaster.

Out playing means, having a better hand and making them pay you. Keep that in mind if you want to be a winning player and leave the magic for television.

Thanks for the comment Vinyl. Perhaps you can help me with this hand I had the other night. I wanted to extract more but I wasn't sure how to. Thoughts anyone?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

UTG ($0.88)
Hero (MP1) ($3.72)
MP2 ($0.80)
CO ($0.86)
Button ($5)
SB ($1.32)
BB ($0.76)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5
heart.gif
, 5
club.gif

UTG raises to $0.04, Hero calls $0.04, 4 folds, BB calls $0.02

Flop: ($0.13) 3
club.gif
, 5
spade.gif
, 10
diamond.gif
(3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.13) 5
diamond.gif
(3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($0.13) Q
diamond.gif
(3 players)
BB bets $0.08, UTG raises to $0.28, Hero raises to $0.80, 2 folds

Total pot: $0.77 | Rake: $0.03

Results below:
Hero didn't show 5
heart.gif
, 5
club.gif
(four of a kind, fives).
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

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Thanks for the comment Vinyl. Perhaps you can help me with this hand I had the other night. I wanted to extract more but I wasn't sure how to. Thoughts anyone?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

UTG ($0.88)
Hero (MP1) ($3.72)
MP2 ($0.80)
CO ($0.86)
Button ($5)
SB ($1.32)
BB ($0.76)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5
heart.gif
, 5
club.gif

UTG raises to $0.04, Hero calls $0.04, 4 folds, BB calls $0.02

Flop: ($0.13) 3
club.gif
, 5
spade.gif
, 10
diamond.gif
(3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.13) 5
diamond.gif
(3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($0.13) Q
diamond.gif
(3 players)
BB bets $0.08, UTG raises to $0.28, Hero raises to $0.80, 2 folds

Total pot: $0.77 | Rake: $0.03

Results below:
Hero didn't show 5
heart.gif
, 5
club.gif
(four of a kind, fives).



im definitely betting flop here to try to inflate the pot early. If noone has anything unlucky br but you have to bet sooner or later or else where is the value? Not betting turn is a crime IMO.
 
S

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im definitely betting flop here to try to inflate the pot early. If noone has anything unlucky br but you have to bet sooner or later or else where is the value? Not betting turn is a crime IMO.

See and I thought I should check through to hide the strength of my hand. The table I was at was starting to run scared everytime I bet so (and this has happened before) I was worried that if I bet I would push them off the pot. I was really hoping for a face card on the turn. I feel that would have really helped with texture.
 
Diogo Jorge

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taking notes it is important to control your opponents along the tournment, and it can be straightly crucial in some kinds of playings or hands. it is a good habit, do it and abuse it
 
vinylspiros

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See and I thought I should check through to hide the strength of my hand. The table I was at was starting to run scared everytime I bet so (and this has happened before) I was worried that if I bet I would push them off the pot. I was really hoping for a face card on the turn. I feel that would have really helped with texture.

I check through alot to hide the strength of my hand as well. Its just that thats probably notvthe right way to go. Its pobably better to bet and i they dont have anything, you can always get it next time.
 
Keith_MM

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+1 to what vinyl said....How the hell do you get value if you don't bet? . You don't seem to be paying any attention to villains stack sizes either. bet .08 would give .29 pot going into turn with one caller, .18 bet on turn would give .65 pot going into river and they'd have at most .56 behind then you can bet .40 and call a shove.

e,g a hand i played the other night
poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.


CO: $25 (100 bb) 24/20 over 35 hands 5% 3bet (50/50 from CO)
BTN: $25 (100 bb)
SB: $26.19 (104.8 bb) 62/30 over 90 hands 2.5% 3bet (69/6 from SB)
Hero (BB): $42.16 (168.6 bb) was probably about 25/21 on that table
UTG: $25 (100 bb)
MP: $14.82 (59.3 bb) 83/33 over 12 hands (99/99 from MP)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2
diamond4.gif
2
heart4.gif

UTG folds, MP raises to $0.50, CO raises to $2, BTN folds, SB calls $1.90, Hero calls $1.75, MP calls $1.50

Flop: ($8) 2
spade4.gif
K
spade4.gif
5
diamond4.gif
(4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.75, MP calls $2.75, CO calls $2.75, SB folds

Turn: ($16.25) 7
spade4.gif
(3 players)
Hero bets $5.50, MP calls $5.50, CO calls $5.50

River: ($32.75) 6
diamond4.gif
(3 players)
Hero bets $31.28, MP calls $4.57 and is all-in, CO calls $14.75 and is all-in

Results: $66.82 pot ($2 rake)
Final Board: 2
spade4.gif
K
spade4.gif
5
diamond4.gif
7
spade4.gif
6
diamond4.gif

CO showed A
heart4.gif
A
spade4.gif
and lost (-$25 net)
Hero showed 2
diamond4.gif
2
heart4.gif
and won $64.82 ($39.82 net)
MP showed 5
heart4.gif
7
diamond4.gif
and lost (-$14.82 net)

notice how even with smallish bets that the megafish was pretty sure to call we end up with stacks in and half pot bet on the river.You should always be aware of how your bets affect the pot size not only on current street but later streets as well.
 
Blobweird123

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55 hand, bet 2/3 flop, 2/3 turn, jam river. Easy game.

The hands you played were garbage and you played them badly. An ego will get you nowhere in poker. I sit there on skype and argue hands with people for the sake of my ego until finally I end up going, "Damn you're right. I feel stupid now." And I learn from that. Get rid of the ego if you want to learn from the forums. Otherwise all you're doing is puffing your chest out at the sign of any disagreement and you won't learn crap. Then 3 months from now when you've busted your roll for the 4th time, you're gonna think man I really wanna make a thread asking for help, but then i'll look stupid since I swore I had it all under control before.

See where I'm going with it? Be honest with yourself and with the people trying to help is all i'm saying. You're not that good yet. We know that, you know that. It doesn't make you stupid. It just makes you inexperienced as we all are/were. So just let the inadequacy show and learn!
 
Blobweird123

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See and I thought I should check through to hide the strength of my hand. The table I was at was starting to run scared everytime I bet so (and this has happened before) I was worried that if I bet I would push them off the pot. I was really hoping for a face card on the turn. I feel that would have really helped with texture.

And as vinyl said, if they don't have anything what does it matter if they see that you have a hand? They aren't going to pay you off just because they think your weak in a pot with no money in it. So just come out swinging!
 
Keith_MM

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a lesson for you should be that you are quite happy to call your stack off vs aggression with Ace high , yet you have the absoulte nuts and check two streetswith it and then when you finally bet to try and get value you scare the others off because of the size of your bet
 
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