How to take off implied odds of villain?

#1 September 17th, 2019, 6:39 AM

I have played a tournament where I would like to take off implied odds against a loose player, so I faced a question.

Effective stack - 160.000 chips.
Sb + Bb + big ante - 2500 + 5000 + 5000 (the big blind position pays an ante at the same bb value).
Villain UTG raised to 10.000.
Pot 22500 chips.
Hero MP2 with Queens.
How to take off implied odds of villain low pairs range?

#2 September 17th, 2019, 10:06 AM

Shoving obviously gets rid of his implied odds but you can achieve that with a reraise too, raise to about 30,000-35,000 and he’s making a mistake if he calls to set mine

#3 September 17th, 2019, 6:17 PM

Originally Posted by micromachine

Shoving obviously gets rid of his implied odds but you can achieve that with a reraise too, raise to about 30,000-35,000 and he�s making a mistake if he calls to set mine

I would like to know the exactly math behind that.

#4 September 18th, 2019, 9:23 AM

He has a 1 in 8 chance of flopping a set.

Amount he could win (160000) / Amount he has to call (20000) = 8

So he’s making a mistake calling anything more than 20000 to set mine.

It’s more complicated than that though and villain calling a raise of less than 20k is still a mistake because you might hit a higher set on F/T/R, or you might fold post flop if he calls and does hit, so he actually needs much better pot odds than 1:8 to call.

#5 September 20th, 2019, 7:49 AM

Originally Posted by micromachine

He has a 1 in 8 chance of flopping a set.

Amount he could win (160000) / Amount he has to call (20000) = 8

So he�s making a mistake calling anything more than 20000 to set mine.

It�s more complicated than that though and villain calling a raise of less than 20k is still a mistake because you might hit a higher set on F/T/R, or you might fold post flop if he calls and does hit, so he actually needs much better pot odds than 1:8 to call.

I think when there's a pot before the raise of hero, it increases the value of villain's call, but what does size raise hero have to do to extract maximum value agains low pairs? How do I know it to make a cirurgical raise?

#6 September 20th, 2019, 9:01 AM

Originally Posted by frnandoh

I think when there's a pot before the raise of hero, it increases the value of villain's call, but what does size raise hero have to do to extract maximum value agains low pairs? How do I know it to make a cirurgical raise?

In this case good size of a 3bet is between pot size bet and pot + his bet. So it's somewhere in the middle between 23K and 33K. I would say that something between 25K and 35K is better. Exact size of the bet depends on opponents stack and agression factor and how often he folds to 3bets. If he has a big stack or he's chipleader of the table and also he's some sort of a calling station, then I would adjust the size of the 3bet even to something like 38K. IF he's not that aggressive and has a small stack then it's good to adjust size of the 3bet to something like 24K. When you did the maths, ask yourself: Do you want him to fold or do you want him to call? What conditions will be comfortable for him if you want him to call? If you'll press too hard - he will run, if you'll press too weak - you will gain less. In general the answer was written by Sun Tzu in his "The art of War" It's a good book for war generals and it's also a good book for poker players. Cause many things are equal in most of the competitions, and if you know how good your guns and soldiers are, then it's time to think about your opponent.

#7 September 20th, 2019, 9:15 AM

Originally Posted by frnandoh

I have played a tournament where I would like to take off implied odds against a loose player, so I faced a question.

Effective stack - 160.000 chips.
Sb + Bb + big ante - 2500 + 5000 + 5000 (the big blind position pays an ante at the same bb value).
Villain UTG raised to 10.000.
Pot 22500 chips.
Hero MP2 with Queens.
How to take off implied odds of villain low pairs range?

Implied odds are very difficult to calculate....but...

Sounds like you're ahead preflop AND you have position - there is really no "implied odds" for you.

I would bet as much as I think this player would call.

Because he's behind he has "implied odds" and you have "reverse implied odds" if he hits his set or better. LOL oh man this is making me dizzy.

I mean if you "know" that the player will call off his entire stack in this position w say 77 - then why not shove and maximize your gain?

Good luck !

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