how to stop being a nit?

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teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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Hey guys

Started keeping a poker journal, as some of you recommended. Here's a hand from my last home poker tournament.



Folds to me in SB with Q6s. I dont expect a raise from BB so I say screw it lets see a flop. BB Checks to flop which is....

Q25 with only one in my suit. I check to BB makes a half sized pot bet and I call.

Turn is another Q. I check (I almost always check in early position, even if its heads up, is this bad?)

BB bets slightly larger, but not more than half the pot.

I go into the tank. I didnt think this player would bet onto a board like this without something of a hand, and I knew that pretty much any queen would beat me.

I folded and asked him to show his cards. He did- 92 so just hitting one pair aside from the Queens.

At the time, I was so angry that I even thought to play Q6s since its often dominated by better queens. I didnt even consider how unlikely it was that he would have the 4th Q.

Is there any way I could have payed this better? If I bet out on the turn, or reraised him a small amount, would I have been able to get enough information to make me more confident?

Or should I have just called because of the pure math of the situation? The only problem with math is, it seems like it can justify anything. I'd still be scared of a massive river bet and try to put that into account.

I hate being a nit, I get bluffed out of small pots very often. But I also hate calling with nothing or calling just to be put in a tough spot where id have to fold later. Any help?

-teh colonel
 
OzRamos

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You called on the flop, got trips on the turn and folded. What else were you hoping to get?

If you really thought he had a Q you should have folded right then and there. But you called a 1/2 pot bet, so you didn't think he had a Q (or else you would/should have folded). The Q in this case was the best hand for you, because unless he had a 55 or 22 (or Q5/Q2 but we already don't put him on a Q) then you had him beat.

Imo this is why people say "raise or fold". He literally could be hold any random hand at all. It was a home game, so he even could have had the instructional card that comes in the deck...you really just don't know.

Try calling less and raising/folding more, you'll be surprised how often people will fold to you! Nit isn't necessarily a bad thing especially when you're still learning
 
DrazaFFT

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^^^^^
this!!!

Now when we have pre flop covered let see what is wrong post flop, you hit top pair and you are first to act, there is nothing wrong to raise there, it is not general rule to check from early position, pot is not raised pre, you are allowed to bet, you are allowed to bet even if the pot is raised pre, this is not good for you from other reasons, but you are allowed... now lets assume that you bet half or 2/3 of the pot, what hand could he have if he checked pre flop, if no info is available on his previous game ill feel free to think that he have mediocre or even marginal hand, i wont be surprised if he folds right there, even if he call that doesn't mean that he instantly have a better Q, he most certainly didn't flopped a set because i don't think that anyone would check pocket pair pre, even if he did he would raise your plop bet and you could happily fold because you are probably beaten... turn gives you another Q, in scenario where you are both still in the pot meaning that he just called your bet, you supposed to fire gain,, and again about 2/3 of the pot and if he is not a fish or if he is missed the board he would fold i dont see anyone calling there without Q or slowplayed set so now at least have information but again i would expect him to raise if he have a hand...

Bottom line by checking and calling you don get any information you are just giving money clueless about what you opp have and what is going on in the hand...
 
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cotta777

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Yea I guess him checking from BB widen's his range, if he had called a limp or min raise, alot of queens could potentially be in his range.
since he checked BB he could have any 2 cards.

I personally would be more concerned about losing value, so I dont mind a check here to induce another raise from villain.
You can disguise your hand and gain value, also you have zero risk of getting caught.

if he calls the turn, you can then check to induce the bluff catcher hoping he doesnt go all in.
Or you can B raise the river keep in mind your getting called by every hand that is beating you, and losing value to hands he cant call.

So for me its ok to check as a bluff catcher take value disguise your trips. and again on the river, Zero risk of him busting you if you check, you give yourself more options and protection
 
rifflemao

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Any help?

Are you comfortable losing your buyin? If not, you may not be properly bankrolled here which can make you "scared money". One way to continue is to note that there are three queens in play and you have one of them, which makes it less likely that he's holding the 4th queen, and he would have raised pre with Q + a strong kicker.
 
teh_colonel_saigon

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Are you comfortable losing your buyin? If not, you may not be properly bankrolled here which can make you "scared money". \

Yeah, that's definitely me. I do need to work on raising and betting more over calling, but esp in my home game when people get drunk and play like apes often times I can just wait for the best hang and have people stuff my pockets for me. But when the blinds start to be raised I get really picky where i put my money.

But just calling pre flop is really that bad? I guess I should study this blind vs blind strategy a bit more, but is it really that detrimental to let my opponent see a flop? Especially when they are capable of betting on a suspicious board?

I like the advice of gettting an idea of his range on the flop, it would have been better to bet out there, esp with top pair.

thanks for the help everyone, been on cardschat a few days, glad to see that everyone is friendly and supportive :D
 
helpspb

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But when the blinds start to be raised I get really picky where i put my money.

You should be doing exact opposite....When blinds are bigger, you should be more active and aggresive or you won't last long.
I wouldn't mind you calling preflop although others have point when they say you should either fold or raise (there's big chance he would've folded if you raised pre and if he called you would know he has something). But main problem with this hand was you not being aggressive and folding even though I bet you had best hand.

I think rifflemao is right about the bankroll management. You need to have big enough bankroll so you don't have to worry about bad beats. It allows you to play your best game.
 
EvertonGirl

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I thought I was a nit :D

I used to be just like you and folding a set if I seen a overcard or two on the board as I was scared to play it. You didn't have an overcard on the board so you should not have folded. If it was the kicker card giving you a headache, then you should of folded it pre. What you should of done is instead of checking is to bet half the pot and go from there.
 
OzRamos

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is it really that detrimental to let my opponent see a flop? Especially when they are capable of betting on a suspicious board?

When you ask if it's detrimental to let your opponent (who you already suspect is capable of betting on a scary board) see the flop for free...yes, it is. They can bet you out of a pot with middle pair when you have top set, as you've experienced.

You should also take into consideration that he bet on a suspicious board because he knew you would fold without the nuts. If you showed him that you folded Q's, then everyone else will know too that you only play the nuts and they will certainly take advantage of you.
 
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AlfieAA

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I thought I was a nit :D

I used to be just like you and folding a set if I seen a overcard or two on the board as I was scared to play it. You didn't have an overcard on the board so you should not have folded. If it was the kicker card giving you a headache, then you should of folded it pre. What you should of done is instead of checking is to bet half the pot and go from there.

it wasnt a set sarah, it was trips.....ive told you this before ;)
 
blueskies

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Is playing Q6s from SB really a "nit"?

Just fold a hand like that preflop if you're not gonna challenge the pot.
 
EvertonGirl

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it wasnt a set sarah, it was trips.....ive told you this before ;)

:p I don't know why I put a set I knew it was trips :D

Maybe I was tripping, you think? :D
 
babydrago9

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Calling with q6 and folding after flopping top pair and turning a set is just criminal. When you call with queen rag, you can only hope to hit top pair, so when you did you probably shouldve bet and taken control of the pot. But not betting is fine... but on the turn you should never put him on another queen... i wouldve put him on a 6 because anyones mindset is that since another queen hit its hard for you to have a queen. It just seems like you mustve been really scared to go busto, but if so fold preflop with that hand, calling accomplishes nothing
 
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