How to play RAZZ

can anyone maybe tell me a little something about how to play razz?? lol.

I like to play it but i think i'm a little unclear on the rules still. I would greatly appreciate it if someone could maybe post various hand strengths in this thread as well.

thanks!

The worst hand wins....kinda.
A 2 3 4 5 = nuts
Flushes don't matter.
Its a limit game.
I love to play it, in HORSE i tghink it is the most profitable game if you know what your doing.

Woodyspoker said:

I love to play it, in HORSE i tghink it is the most profitable game if you know what your doing.

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How is limit razz the most profitable game?

custo80 said:

How is limit razz the most profitable game?

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In Horse its usualy the time where chips exchange hands the most since there are so many people that are clueless how to play it well.

I think yo are right even though I know the basic rules of razz I still get clueless most of the time

I love razz , but sadly have not played it much.
It is easy to make in this game,like someone said above most people dont know what thay atr doing.
Your 1st 3 card must all be different and have a face value under 9 b4 i will call , this is good enof 4 me to win a lot of pots.

I'm no razz specialist by any means but I might be able to provide a bit more info. Basically, you want to make the best low hand possible and as Woodyspoker mentioned, A-2-3-4-5 (AKA "the wheel") is the best hand. If you already play 7 card stud, then razz should be easier to understand.

After the first three cards are dealt, the person with the highest up card (K is the worst card to have) has to make the first bet and the betting goes around. In the case where more than one person has the highest card (e.g., 2 people who have K as their up card), then the person closest to the dealer's left needs to act first. Then after the betting is over, 4th street is dealt, but beginning with the player with the lowest up card. Subsequent streets are dealt in a similar way but starting with 5th street, the bets increase to the high limit (so if you're playing $1-$2 razz, the minimum bet increases to $2). Both 5th and 6th street are dealt up and then 7th street is dealt down.

Anyways, here are the top 10 hands and I think you'll start to get the pattern

1) A-2-3-4-5
2) 6-4-3-2-A
3) 6-5-3-2-A
4) 6-5-4-2-A
5) 6-5-4-3-2
6) 7-4-3-2-A
7) 7-5-3-2-A
8) 7-5-4-2-A
9) 7-5-4-2-A
10) 7-5-4-3-A

Phil Hellmuth's Play Poker Like the Pros might be a good source to get the basics and he has a more comprehensive chart too.

OP, if you can provide us a more detailed question, we might be able to provide more specific answers. Hope this helps you somewhat.

Nice post, ryod. Learning to play decently is not hard. For practice, you can enter the nightly FT RAZZ freeroll at 9PM (9:40PM start - US eastern time).....might see ya

qwerrk said:

Nice post, ryod. Learning to play decently is not hard. For practice, you can enter the nightly FT RAZZ freeroll at 9PM (9:40PM start - US eastern time).....might see ya

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Thanks qwerrk. Interesting that you mention the FT razz freeroll since I'm playing in it right now. But for those of you starting off, just remember that freerolls and play money can have a lot of loose/poor players (like any other poker game) so be careful...you don't wanna adopt a poor playing style like mine!

custo80 said:

How is limit razz the most profitable game?

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All games in HORSE are limit.
Most of the time people don't know how to play it. They will either play having not really a clue how, fold everythig because they have no clue what they are doing, focusing to much on there on cards, or even sometimes thinking they are playing stud.
So yes limit razz can be extremely profitable in HORSE.

thank god i read this, i have been playing horse lately and i always seem to lose all my chips in Razz!

Woodyspoker said:

So yes limit razz can be extremely profitable in HORSE.

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I've always thought Razz is just one of the HORSE games most people play badly - the other (in my experience, anyway) is Stud8.

I have a correction to make on my initial post in this thread - looks like I made a mistake about the bring-in bet. I said that if two people have the same up card, then the person closest to the left of the dealer brings it in.

I was playing in the razz freeroll on FT when I realized that's not the case so I searched to double check and it's determined by suits: spades, hearts, diamonds & clubs in descending order (e.g., if 2 people have a King and one holds a King of spades and the other holds hearts, the person with the spade makes the bring-in bet).

Sorry for the mistake guys.

Here's a link to Razz rules from PokerStars

ryodejaneiro said:

I have a correction .....[SNIP]
Sorry for the mistake guys.

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Small point, ryod, but good catch of a minor detail

Here's a minute something I have thought about -- what's the best starting RAZZ hand?

The way I see it, A2 under w/ 3 showing is third best.

A2 w/ 5 up would be best hand since it gives the least impression of a good hand to the table (but still gives you 3 the 5 cards you need for the nuts).

I doubt anyone plays against a 3-up any differently than against a 5-up so my point is practically moot...no one else would listen but there it is

When I first started playing RAZZ, I though that it would be easy since I always get sucky hands, but forget that. RAZZ is one of the hardest games for me to master.

qwerrk said:

The way I see it, A2 under w/ 3 showing is third best.

A2 w/ 5 up would be best hand since it gives the least impression of a good hand to the table (but still gives you 3 the 5 cards you need for the nuts).

I doubt anyone plays against a 3-up any differently than against a 5-up so my point is practically moot...no one else would listen but there it is

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That's one way of looking at it I guess.

The other is that if you're playing a low door card (3 as opposed to a 5) then you're less likely to have lower cards in the hole. You could be completing with (A2)3, but you could be completing with (86)3 as well. Or (K8)3, if there's mostly high cards after you. The general rule is that the higher someone's upcard is, the more likely they are to be perfect in the hole.

So coming in with a 3 door card (or A/2 - remember the 3 doesn't need to be your door card to start with A23) isn't necessarily that big a give away of your hand strength.

ok thanks for the feedback everyone. I also tend to agree with most everybody who says that not many people know how to play it. I do find limit horse/razz games to be more profitable, but with limit alot of people call bets since its limit even if they dont know what they're doing and they get lucky....its disgusting.

After reading this whole thread. I see why I lost 2 Razz tournaments. Things should be much better now. I am a hold'em man myself but now when I get bored and play a few Razz tournaments. I won't get knocked out early.

I play razz almost exclusively these days. I have read a few of listening's articles and they are very good. Also, highly recommend reading the Razz section in Sklansky on Poker and running some of your hands through a razz simulator like this one to give you a better grasp of the math: ProPokerTools Razz Simulator - super fast all-in calculator for razz

Trust me, razz can be very profitable at even the $2/4 and 3/6 levels.

Razz is my favorite and the EASIEST game to play knowing A2345 (the lowest hand) is the best hand possible. Using the probability method (if you remember that subject in high school and college) makes it so much easier to play will increase your odds. Having the 4 with 3X factor should bring back some memories if you did good in that area. I play Razz 99% of the time on fulltiltpoker and I make the top 27 over 80% of the time. Go figure.

ok someone says it was the easiest game to play just by knowing A2345 is the bestWTF??? i dont think so.
Its perhaps one of the most dificult games to master, this kind of mentality will finish u on the tables.

I love RAZZ. The only MTTs I've won were both in RAZZ. Of course, I can't play NLHE to save my life. LOL

Good luck all.
L

Since it seems like there are quite a few people who like razz here, let me ask you all a question.

In general, what are your starting hand requirements?

Obviously this can depend on the situation - if everyone else has a door card of 10 or greater and you have an ace showing (but the other cards aren't that good) you might still complete the bet or raise to pick up the pot.

I was always under the assumption that razz is mostly a drawing game, thats why winning percentages change alot. So based on that, when I'm playing razz(which I just started recently) as long as I have a top card A-5 and a card usually no higher than an 8 I don't care what my 3rd card is for my starting requirement. And so far I've been doing well. I can't wait to play the FT razz freeroll. Just found out about that one.

I tried this game a few times. What a head screw. It seems to me like reverse stud. I tried to understand the top hand thing but for someone not used to the game ....man its tough.