How to play the flop when you 3bet the bottom half of your range and get called?

S

ScrunchJeans

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Total posts
4
Chips
0
Lately I’ve been experimenting with playing a mixed 3 betting range and wanted to get some insight.

What do we do in a situation where we need to either 3bet or fold, we opt to 3 bet, villain calls, and the flop misses us completely?

Is c-betting a viable option here part of the time even when we have air, or is it better to just check/fold and try again with another hand later?

I’m aware it’s on a case-by-case basis but just in general what’s our play here the majority of the time?
 
vov4ik

vov4ik

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Total posts
3,354
Chips
0
When I raise a bet in 3-bet, I only raise on good cards and look at the flop, if I have no match on the flop with the cards, I play a check, and if the player who called me then raises the bet, then I fold my cards if I don’t have a match with combinations, it is sometimes necessary to not lose more chips or money in a cash game!
 
Lorpugo

Lorpugo

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Total posts
495
Chips
0
Vov4ik I make money from players like you heads up. Only raise with premium cards and if miss check fold. ScrunchJeans as any valuebetting range your 3bets should include bluffs otherwise people will just fold and will be able to play perfectly on the flop if you missed. Of course you need to consider positions and effective stacks. Back to the point. First you need to set up correct frequency of bluffs and then select the hands you want to bluff. If you value 3bet top 15% of hands good 3bet light frequency is around 7%. You can use suited connectors or one gap suited connectors so your range is all around. If you miss but there is 1 high card you can bluff represent it. Also if he called you and board hits you on suit or rank you can continue as he puts you on high cards. When flop is K jack and something else then check fold. So on most flop you can barrel except when it smashed his range.
 
bereckelya

bereckelya

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Total posts
10
Chips
0
I play bet on the flop and turn. And check/fold on river if have nothing.
 
MrPokerVerse

MrPokerVerse

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Total posts
2,825
Awards
2
Chips
57
You are going play this differently depending on the position you are to the caller. If you out of position it is difficult to continue being aggressive with air. Not betting out of position gives information you are weak. In position you are more prone to be aggressive especially after a check from villain. All comes down to how well you can sell the story of you're hand strength.
 
S

ScrunchJeans

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Total posts
4
Chips
0
Vov4ik I make money from players like you heads up. Only raise with premium cards and if miss check fold. ScrunchJeans as any valuebetting range your 3bets should include bluffs otherwise people will just fold and will be able to play perfectly on the flop if you missed. Of course you need to consider positions and effective stacks. Back to the point. First you need to set up correct frequency of bluffs and then select the hands you want to bluff. If you value 3bet top 15% of hands good 3bet light frequency is around 7%. You can use suited connectors or one gap suited connectors so your range is all around. If you miss but there is 1 high card you can bluff represent it. Also if he called you and board hits you on suit or rank you can continue as he puts you on high cards. When flop is K jack and something else then check fold. So on most flop you can barrel except when it smashed his range.



This is the type of answer I was looking for. I’m new to the forum and am surprised to see how terrible a lot of the other advice on my question is.

So when it’s a dry board that only has one broadway card and shouldn’t hit his range hard, what should I do on the turn if he calls my flop c-bet? Check/fold if we don’t improve?
 
S

ScrunchJeans

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Total posts
4
Chips
0
When I raise a bet in 3-bet, I only raise on good cards and look at the flop, if I have no match on the flop with the cards, I play a check, and if the player who called me then raises the bet, then I fold my cards if I don’t have a match with combinations, it is sometimes necessary to not lose more chips or money in a cash game!



I appreciate you answering, but this is terrible advice bro. If you’re only 3betting with your best cards, it’s easy for decent players to fold every time and not pay you off.

You’re playing a very beginner strategy that’s called “fit or fold” meaning you’re only betting when you have it and folding when you don’t. This is hands down the easiest play style to exploit.
 
Lorpugo

Lorpugo

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Total posts
495
Chips
0
This is the type of answer I was looking for. I’m new to the forum and am surprised to see how terrible a lot of the other advice on my question is.

So when it’s a dry board that only has one broadway card and shouldn’t hit his range hard, what should I do on the turn if he calls my flop c-bet? Check/fold if we don’t improve?
On the turn it gets complicated. Generally speaking you can not just check fold if you get called on the flop because observent opponent will start to float more and will play aggressively when you check the turn. That said When you actually hit top pair sometimes go for bet flop check turn and bet river. If villain reads your turn check as weakness and bet you can 3bet. This way next time when you actually miss flop cbet and check turn he can not barrel 100%. Of course checking the turn if there are no draws if there are continue bet for protection. Back to the point when you miss flop cbet and get called. Here it is complicated calculation based on board texture villain range and turn card and of course stack sizes. If you miss completely and do not have draws best is check fold if you do not have reads on villain. However if you have draws and you think villain missed too and is floating go for second barrel. If you have draws but think villain hit the flop since he called you like Vov4ik then generally check call if you have the correct odds. If you put him on second pair lets say board is ace qween five and you think he has queen and you have weak draw go for check raise on the turn. Strong draw continues to check call. Missed the point when you hit second pair. There are a lot of considerations and I can not count all of it but with more experience and work out the tables you will be able to do it almost automatically. Best way to found answers on these kind of questions find will tipton books his solutions are mathematically based. Can send it to you on email. Good luck
 
teepack

teepack

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Total posts
2,317
Awards
1
Chips
14
If you have position and it checks to you, then a bet would probably be in order. But it you are out of position, then it really depends on what you think of your opponents. If it is a really dry board (J-7-4 rainbow), then it may have missed your opponent, too, so a C-bet could scare away your opponent. And if it is a really connected board (A-Q-9 with two of the same suit) a C-bet could also scare away your opponent. But if you try a C-bet and get called, it may be time to call off the dogs, especially if the turn is another brick for you. Don't waste good chips trying to get bad ones back.
 
mistershrimpy

mistershrimpy

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Total posts
133
Chips
0
There is only one way out - to do 3bet only with a strong hand, or go to the end with a weak hand, if you still decide to do 3bet.
 
playinggameswithu

playinggameswithu

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Total posts
2,250
Chips
0
Majority of cases generally speaking it is super weak not to c bet in the situation you gave. That being said I wouldn't bother on a suited or flush draw 9 to Q board.
 
S

ScrunchJeans

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Total posts
4
Chips
0
On the turn it gets complicated. Generally speaking you can not just check fold if you get called on the flop because observent opponent will start to float more and will play aggressively when you check the turn. That said When you actually hit top pair sometimes go for bet flop check turn and bet river. If villain reads your turn check as weakness and bet you can 3bet. This way next time when you actually miss flop cbet and check turn he can not barrel 100%. Of course checking the turn if there are no draws if there are continue bet for protection. Back to the point when you miss flop cbet and get called. Here it is complicated calculation based on board texture villain range and turn card and of course stack sizes. If you miss completely and do not have draws best is check fold if you do not have reads on villain. However if you have draws and you think villain missed too and is floating go for second barrel. If you have draws but think villain hit the flop since he called you like Vov4ik then generally check call if you have the correct odds. If you put him on second pair lets say board is ace qween five and you think he has queen and you have weak draw go for check raise on the turn. Strong draw continues to check call. Missed the point when you hit second pair. There are a lot of considerations and I can not count all of it but with more experience and work out the tables you will be able to do it almost automatically. Best way to found answers on these kind of questions find will tipton books his solutions are mathematically based. Can send it to you on email. Good luck



Nice. I’d like to read that. Am I allowed to post my email in these forums or should I message it to you
 
Top