How much stats/math is really necessary?

#1 22nd July 2018, 10:44 PM

I've been watching and reading a lot on Poker, and the only thing that's been a real pain has been trying to learn EV, Pot Odds, etc.

I'm not naturally a math guy, so wanted to see what everybody thinks about the math involved, and how much you think it's worth.

#2 22nd July 2018, 11:02 PM

Very important but luckily the most part is simple.

#3 22nd July 2018, 11:07 PM

You definitely want some basic math principles to be successful. Knowing how many outs you most likely have (to make a straight, flush, etc) and what the chance of hitting it is versus the cost to call compared to pot size is quite important and fairly easily and quickly to figure out.

#4 23rd July 2018, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by NinjaHands

I've been watching and reading a lot on Poker, and the only thing that's been a real pain has been trying to learn EV, Pot Odds, etc.

I'm not naturally a math guy, so wanted to see what everybody thinks about the math involved, and how much you think it's worth.

To be a winner you need to know that stuff.

Go become a pro you need to understand indepth the math behind the game.

Little of the math is beyond algebra, so its fairly simple stuff. But very important.

#5 23rd July 2018, 9:01 PM

It's not the most complicated Maths but knowing pot odds and outs can help you a lot e.g. if you have an open ended straight draw at the flop which is very likely to win the pot if it hits, you want to know the odds of making the straight so that you know if you are getting the right price to call someone else's bet. It just gives you that bit more information when you make decisions.

#6 23rd July 2018, 9:33 PM

If you want to be average use it. But if you want to be great get ridd of it.Not completely. You need to learn to roughly calculatee that things. But not play just by the stats. This game is art as much as its math.

#7 24th July 2018, 7:20 AM

Since there are 52 cards in the deck, i roughly edtimate each card to be worth 2 percent. So, if I have 3 outs. I figure it is a 6 percent chance of coming up on next card.

#8 24th July 2018, 4:04 PM

Originally Posted by Protential

To be a winner you need to know that stuff.

Go become a pro you need to understand indepth the math behind the game.

Little of the math is beyond algebra, so its fairly simple stuff. But very important.

True. I guess I can't slack on the math LOL! Interesting perspectives guys, thanks!

#9 24th July 2018, 4:59 PM

I love math because it's useful to me. It started out as a kid, my parents would give me lots of attention for being good at math.
Now, my friends and enemies at the table pay me for being BETTER at math than them. That's really it. If you're marginally better at math or applying it more than your opponents, you'll start winning more.
Train your brain to value math. It'll pay dividends FOR SURE.
Good luck!!

#10 27th July 2018, 1:14 AM

Originally Posted by stillgotouts

I love math because it's useful to me. It started out as a kid, my parents would give me lots of attention for being good at math.
Now, my friends and enemies at the table pay me for being BETTER at math than them. That's really it. If you're marginally better at math or applying it more than your opponents, you'll start winning more.
Train your brain to value math. It'll pay dividends FOR SURE.
Good luck!!

Anyone have any advice for resources?
I've looked at the Strategy Articles and other texts, but I'm more interested in Videos with good teachers talking about poker math.

Any specific suggestions?

#11 27th July 2018, 1:37 AM

I ignored the math for a long time and remained I a major rut (not that I am a pro now lol), but when I finally started paying attention to and learning pot odds I was able to up my game considerably.

Still did not have EV down and still working on getting a better handle on this so I can apply it during live play but where it really comes into play I guess is when you are late in a tourney and have to put a significant amount of chips at risk, knowing the math helps with decisions like this. But as stated above there is an art to the game as well, so you have to take into consideration all things so to me math is another part of your arsenal but not the sole defining factor but it certainly helps

#12 27th July 2018, 2:47 PM

Not nearly as much as some people will have you believe. All the you really need are the fundamentals. This is a basic knowledge of pot odds, hand odds and implied odds.

Heck, if you are playing Limit poker you don't even need to know implied odds.

#13 27th July 2018, 6:15 PM

Yes, I try to use poker math in each decision I make at the table.

#14 27th July 2018, 6:42 PM

Play around with a calculator on cardplayer playing Omaha to learn your statistics. You should be able to feel the stats and have them memorized.

#15 27th July 2018, 7:11 PM

Originally Posted by BlackRain79

Not nearly as much as some people will have you believe. All the you really need are the fundamentals. This is a basic knowledge of pot odds, hand odds and implied odds.

Heck, if you are playing Limit poker you don't even need to know implied odds.

Yeah, I've been looking at outs and equity stats as I've been playing and it's changed my instincts for the better already. After a while it seems like I'll be able to intuit the odds without the hell of constant calculations.

Quite honestly, learning more about odds and pot/fold equity has transformed my game. Thanks a lot guys, great advice

#16 27th July 2018, 7:14 PM

May put a few auxiliary programs and do not count.

#17 27th July 2018, 7:29 PM

I atleast calculate how many outs I have....and depending on the bet whether I want to lose those chips to see...other then that any hand can be a winner potentially...the worst hand can beat the best...without any outs...and playing on ACR for about 3 months...the cards awards the worst hand it seems...good luck in your games...

#18 2nd August 2018, 4:01 AM

Yeah, I sometimes use a HUD, but even then, there are a lot of stats you can work out based purely on the board and your hole cards.

I've focused on outs and equity, generally, and figured that I can usually tell if something has a favorable equity or not based on the outs I have, and the past play of the other players. Fold equity has been the most important aspect for me so far. It's amazing how many hands you can win without a showdown!

I'm pretty happy that I started taking the MATH more seriously lol

#19 2nd August 2018, 4:39 AM

You absolutely need to know your pot odds - especially in cash games.

If my opponent has me beat - then how many cards are left in the deck for me to improve my hand?

I think pot odds are less important in tournaments. But what message is my opponent sending me by denying me pot odds on the flop or turn ? Depending on what I have seen from that player that day I might fold to a big bet.

My girlfriend used to play just by feel (i assume she meant aggression factor of other player) and colors. Sometimes she would win and think she was doing everything right. But, it was truly just luck for her and she didn't know it (or care really - she was having fun).

Good luck!

#20 2nd August 2018, 6:40 AM

This is the total basis for learning poker if you want to be a winning player.

#21 3rd August 2018, 8:29 PM

I'm studying a content on the internet. I use poker schools from their own poker platforms.

I believe that yes, simplified mathematics is essential to play with coherence. Being one of the main factors, other factors like profile, effective stack, perceived range, betting frequency are added to basic math.

You learn to play poker, because it is a game of people and not of cards. Often, a person folds the game better due to the range's fairness of the villain and other factors (aggressiveness is one of them).

At first I studied the theory a lot but did not use mathematical concepts.
TODAY I give a lot of emphasis to pot odds, blinds, andd effective stack equity.
Some days do not just go as planned, but the human mind is flawed, like all of us ... and from that, WE HAVE to learn from it.

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How much stats/math is really necessary?

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