BDG
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Hello
4× your outs on the flop and 2 × on the turn
its not spot on but it gives a close estamate and if you have a smart phone you can download poker calculator App and put in some of the hand you remember after a session or just random hand its helped me its also a good way to work out if you where making the right decisions hope this helps im also having trouble with running out of time with pot odds and reads on my opponent
4× your outs on the flop and 2 × on the turn
its not spot on but it gives a close estamate and if you have a smart phone you can download poker calculator App and put in some of the hand you remember after a session or just random hand its helped me its also a good way to work out if you where making the right decisions hope this helps im also having trouble with running out of time with pot odds and reads on my opponent
DrazaFFT
public static void
Bronze Level
Also rules of 2 and 4 are less accurate when you have more that 9 outs so after multiplying your outs with 2 or 4 you need to subtract that number with (outs-9)
Im not really good at math but if i figure out how to write the equation ill edit the post
Im not really good at math but if i figure out how to write the equation ill edit the post
AlfieAA
Legend
Silver Level
find an odds and outs chart online and copy it down on a piece of paper..usually 1 out through 20 or something...memorise outs for the flush draw and open ender straight draw...so the flush draw is 9 outs..4/1 for hitting on the turn or river and 2/1 for hitting by river...unless you are going all in on the flop then count by the rule of 2...so that would be 4/1...if you are facing a shove on the flop then count by the rule of 4...so 2/1....then memorise all your outs and look at your chart everyday until you learn them.......you can also get a deck of cards and deal out two hands and a flop...see what the worse hand is and count the outs you need for it to win against the best hand....then work out the odds...will take about 2-4 weeks until you know them without thinking.......plus its better than counting by the rule of 4 and 2 all the time lol...glgl
EvertonGirl
Professional Fish
Loyaler
I have been doing this, it takes me a while to actually remember certain things, I will hopefully crack it soon
AlfieAA
Legend
Silver Level
I have been doing this, it takes me a while to actually remember certain things, I will hopefully crack it soon
haha it took me awhile to crack it too sarah, you just need to keep practising..i usually get bored and do something 1 or 2 times then give up...but i forced myself to practice counting with the deck for half an hour a day for about 3 weeks...and before you know it you know them...so it deffo works, just need to stick with it.......you can doooo it
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Don't over complicate it. Keep it simple!
Calculate your outs > use 2/4 rule (it doesn't matter if villain is allin on flop, etc. etc. this is b.s.... we consider '4' on flop if we're thinking we're going to be seeing turn & river (< & this doesn't mean villain would have to be 'allin' on flop as has been suggested in some other threads as well recently).
Probably the simplest place to learn this stuff is in Phil Gordon's Little Green Book. He lays it out very simply - - well-written, easy to understand.
There are also charts in that book to give you an idea of what bet sizes you can profitably call depending upon how many outs you have.
Something newer players don't always consider is 'clean outs' (ie. if your straight outs actually complete someone else's flush outs, etc.)
Pretty sure you can get that book from any library (they might have to order it for you)
Also, try playing around with something like 'Pokerstove'. It will help out considerably.
Calculate your outs > use 2/4 rule (it doesn't matter if villain is allin on flop, etc. etc. this is b.s.... we consider '4' on flop if we're thinking we're going to be seeing turn & river (< & this doesn't mean villain would have to be 'allin' on flop as has been suggested in some other threads as well recently).
Probably the simplest place to learn this stuff is in Phil Gordon's Little Green Book. He lays it out very simply - - well-written, easy to understand.
There are also charts in that book to give you an idea of what bet sizes you can profitably call depending upon how many outs you have.
Something newer players don't always consider is 'clean outs' (ie. if your straight outs actually complete someone else's flush outs, etc.)
Pretty sure you can get that book from any library (they might have to order it for you)
Also, try playing around with something like 'Pokerstove'. It will help out considerably.
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DrazaFFT
public static void
Bronze Level
Alfie can you explain again how you doing it with the deck, you deal two open hands and count the outs and percentage until you memorize it, right? I like to play with p
odds calculator, can i make progress that way?
odds calculator, can i make progress that way?
AlfieAA
Legend
Silver Level
ok get your deck, and deal out two hands...then a flop...turn your two hands over and by looking at the flop and the two hands see what hand is the best so far....the best hand becomes villians and the worse hand becomes yours....count out how many outs you have to beat the best hand.....
example....you deal out AK and 78 and the flop is A89rainbow.....so the AK is the best hand so it becomes villians....your hand is the 78...you need another 7 or an 8 to improve....so thats 5 outs....also there are backdoor outs for your hand...a TJ,6T and 56 would give you a straight....count your backdoor outs as one for each draw...so 1 for straights and 1 for flushes etc....since you dont have a flush draw and only a backdoor straight 3 combos, you count it as 1......so all together you have 6 outs.......6x4 is 24% or 3/1 to make your hand by the river....7/1 if the turn doesnt improve and its just the river.....@po, ive seen a few posts with people saying dont count x4 on the flop unless you are calling a shove otf so why are they saying that and you are saying not to do that?
AlfieAA
Legend
Silver Level
heres a little list of outs and odds by ratio, and since ive got nothing to do for half an hour i thought i would kill some time and help our friend out......memorise the list, it wont take you as long as you think.....and always remember...more outs less odds, less outs higher odds...
1 out......44/1 by river 22/1 turn or river
2 outs....22/1 and 11/1
3 outs....14/1 and 7/1
4 outs....10/1 and 5/1
5 outs....8/1 and 4/1
6 outs....7/1 and 3/1
7 outs...5.5/1 and 2.5/1
8 outs...5/1 and 2/1
9 outs ..4/1 and 2/1
10 outs 3.5/1 and 1.5/1
11 outs 3/1 and 1.5/1
12 outs 3/1 and 1.5/1
13 outs 2.5/1 and evens
14 through 17 outs 2/1 and evens
18 and 19 1.5/1 and fav ...
if you memorise this then you are on your way.....you can also download 'ace poker drills' to practice your out and odd counting if you cant be assed using a real deck..gl man and everyone else wanting to learn it....
1 out......44/1 by river 22/1 turn or river
2 outs....22/1 and 11/1
3 outs....14/1 and 7/1
4 outs....10/1 and 5/1
5 outs....8/1 and 4/1
6 outs....7/1 and 3/1
7 outs...5.5/1 and 2.5/1
8 outs...5/1 and 2/1
9 outs ..4/1 and 2/1
10 outs 3.5/1 and 1.5/1
11 outs 3/1 and 1.5/1
12 outs 3/1 and 1.5/1
13 outs 2.5/1 and evens
14 through 17 outs 2/1 and evens
18 and 19 1.5/1 and fav
...if you memorise this then you are on your way.....you can also download 'ace poker drills' to practice your out and odd counting if you cant be assed using a real deck..gl man and everyone else wanting to learn it....
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
because they aren't capable of thinking or have been misinformed.
I briefly explained above.. but would be happy to elaborate later when I'm not on a bunch of tables.
AlfieAA
Legend
Silver Level
thanks po, i would like you to elaborate coz ive been counting by the rule of 2 on the flop ever since i saw some of the cash regs on here saying that was the correct way to do it...and i think i even seen it on a couple of strat articles at the pokerbank...is there a different way to count on cash from tourney games?...
Bowman26
Rock Star
Silver Level
Get a degree in Engineering. That's what I did. Makes those calcs easy in the head. Really though you should just learn them to memory by what you are seeing over time if you are running the numbers in your head to practice of course.
This is why I can't play casino games. I walk around and all I see when I look at a game is the houses % advantage over me on each one. Funny thing is I like roulette which is the WORST odds in the house right. BUT on a busy night with lots of players it moves slow and if you play slow you can get lots of drinks. I've still yet to loose a dime playing it even with those odds. Always a number or two to bet that will hit more than others it seems. Another drink please.... lol
This is why I can't play casino games. I walk around and all I see when I look at a game is the houses % advantage over me on each one. Funny thing is I like roulette which is the WORST odds in the house right. BUT on a busy night with lots of players it moves slow and if you play slow you can get lots of drinks. I've still yet to loose a dime playing it even with those odds. Always a number or two to bet that will hit more than others it seems. Another drink please.... lol
Akorps
Rock Star
Silver Level
With a 52 card deck, its roughly 2 times your outs with 1 card to go, 4 times your outs with 2 cards to go.
Strangely enough, in variants with a 32 card deck, it doubles, 4 times your outs with 1 card to go, 8 times your outs with 2 cards to go (roughly, if I figured it right).
I think that may be the reason some players like such variants, all the normal rules change so new players may make more mistakes
Strangely enough, in variants with a 32 card deck, it doubles, 4 times your outs with 1 card to go, 8 times your outs with 2 cards to go (roughly, if I figured it right).
I think that may be the reason some players like such variants, all the normal rules change so new players may make more mistakes