Originally Posted by OniGamer
So in a tourney I caught
on my first hand. I was in early position, so I 3bet it.
3 people called
At this point I had a straight draw and a flush draw so I bet the pot, hoping to scare a couple of them out. One guy folded, next guy went all in, and the third guy called. I also called, hoping to catch one of my outs.
I didn't catch it and one of them won with A7os (I think the other guy had A2os)
Did I play this well? What should I have done differently? And in general should you try and chase your outs or just leave it alone if you don't catch the flop?
I'm not sure your thinking about these situations with clarity but the call was probably a good call. Depends on stacks and other info not in OP, but if you are getting something like 2 to 1+ on the call with 12 outs you are in a very +EV (even if it is super volatile you should generally take these gambles if they are massively +EV and/or will not bust you out of the tourney near the bubble) .
OP, the question of chasing outs or not chasing just comes down to pot odds
vs race odds in this example, especially with the money bubble likely far off in the distance.
Some times implied odds can be a factor but with all betting action over on the flop (every one is all in) you simply have to look at the price you are being laid and compare it to the odds of winning.. For example, if you are pretty sure you have nine outs to the flush and another 3 outs to the straight (don't count the Js twice) then you have 12 outs twice. Usually you can count your outs, multiply by two, and add one to get pretty close to your % chance of winning. With twelve outs and two cards to come you are in roughly a coin flip situation. Getting 2 to 1 on a flip is a pretty serious edge.
With two players all in (depending on stacks) you'll usually be getting better than 2 to 1 (money already in the pot and plus the two all-in bets compared to what it costs you to call) if there's 20,000 in the pot and it costs you 10,000 to call you are in overlay. You're getting 2 to 1 and your odds of winning are about 1 to 1 (or 50/50). In other words, you'll lose the 10K half the time and win 20K half the time for an average gain of 5K/trial (using my numbers).
If you think about it that way you can see where one big flaw in your thinking is. Making a big bet hoping to chase SOME of the players out of the pot when you have a big draw is usually not the best idea. If you drove all but one player out then you'd be getting worse odds. When drawing to the nuts or something close to it, the more the marrier. If you improve you hand you will win against 3 opponents about as often as you'll win against a single opponent. Thinking about that concept could really help you to get your head around these situations. Its usually best to either get EVERYONE to fold or EVERYONE to call in when you have a big draw (even more so if you were drawing to the nuts). Hope that helps some.