How to handle flush draws?

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Lieutenant_OH7

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Since a longer time I've had some problems with flush draws. As a lot of players seem to do, I'm already expecting my flush when you have 4 suited cards in your hand... A lot of the times the flush just won't come... After you invest quite some chips in it, or even go all-in... I used to just call and hope to catch my flush on the turn or river, while recently I've tried a few times to "blow" my opponents out of the hand by going all in on the flop, or check-raising big... A few times it worked out but sometimes it failed aswell and cost me a lot of chips... Depends on how tight etc the players are and what they have ofc, but I expierenced a lot of players will call the all-in just with a top pair...

So how can you overcome this temptation of flushes? And what is the best way to handle them in your opinion? Are the strategies I'm trying wrong or how would you adjust it?
 
monkey23

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in days gone by, 'power poker' would suggest that your heavy draws...flushes or straights ( with overcards especially) should be played aggressively... fold equity is also an influencing factor on your play when considering aggression. Nowadays, it's perhaps more common to play them more defensively.

Implied odds, as well as actual odds can be factored in. Opponents' styles of course should be taken into account...every hand is a different' situation'...poker is a very situational game after all.

Position is naturally also important...one might be less inclined to play the draws aggressively out of position, and more so in position.

How many people are in the hand..?...do you have the nut-draw..?..this is especially important when playing omaha.

there are lots of top-pair-fish out there...who play top pair like it's already the nuts...these players ( including myself from time to time...lol) should be noted and suitable action taken when playing hands against them in the future.
 
Lerts

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Well i look at it from a statistical point of view. So if you caught the flush draw on the flop, you then have 9 outs considering 2 are in your hand and the other 2 on the board, then you would multiply your number of outs by 4 to get your equity percentage, which on the flop would be a whopping 36% :( so you gonna make your flush only 36% of the time. So base on that and lets say you are deep stack you dont wanna commit to much of you chips to a pot like that. how ever in my opinion its a good opportunity for short stacks to get it all in and for an coin-flip opportunity. Looking at the turn now, your draw significantly decreases by the turn giving you only around 17-18% equity. So depending on the number of opponents you are up against in the hand, the size bets of your opponents and the size of your stack you, you would know how much chips to get in, when to fold etc
 
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Well i look at it from a statistical point of view. So if you caught the flush draw on the flop, you then have 9 outs considering 2 are in your hand and the other 2 on the board, then you would multiply your number of outs by 4 to get your equity percentage, which on the flop would be a whopping 36% :( so you gonna make your flush only 36% of the time. So base on that and lets say you are deep stack you dont wanna commit to much of you chips to a pot like that. how ever in my opinion its a good opportunity for short stacks to get it all in and for an coin-flip opportunity. Looking at the turn now, your draw significantly decreases by the turn giving you only around 17-18% equity. So depending on the number of opponents you are up against in the hand, the size bets of your opponents and the size of your stack you, you would know how much chips to get in, when to fold etc

Indeed, but it's not really true what you say, there would only be 9 outs if no one else on the table received cards from that same suit... (Which you don't know). So I always think that you simply have 25% chance to hit it on the turn and another 25% to hit it on the river, correct me if I'm wrong...
 
monkey23

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this is an interesting lesson perhaps that is pertinent to the OP...the original 'power poker' advocate, Doyle himself...vs a young gun who perhaps plays a more modern style of poker. I hope ya like it :)
 
PokerNuts01

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I play my draw aggressively! :thrasher:
When you're the aggressor, you can win the pot two ways. You can win by having your opponent fold or you can win by hitting your hand.
More ways to win equals more profit.
 
7svetoslav

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Im playing them different almost every time. I think its bad to play it one signle way.
It depends on situations, the worst is two player on the table, that means theres percent that someone could have full house and take your chips if you dont be careful or be sure what you are doing.
There are also so many ways flush could be played, depending on players, stacks, stage of tournament if its played in tournament, skills and more and more possible situations.
 
Gabinho12345

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Sometimes it's good to play draws aggressively by semibluffing but you can also just call and try to hit your hand and bluff sometimes when you miss.
 
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BreakTheBeard

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These kinds of questions are hard to answer, as they are dependent on the situation. You have to analyze who you are up against, is the board paired, are you in position, how was this person playing prior to this? Sometimes I play mine hyper aggressively if I have two overs to the board with a draw to the nuts if I think there is a decent chance the villain will fold, or I will play it passively and hope to hit if I think he has a decent hand hoping to stack him and trying to keep the pot small until the river. Like I said... it is situational.
 
Lerts

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Indeed, but it's not really true what you say, there would only be 9 outs if no one else on the table received cards from that same suit... (Which you don't know). So I always think that you simply have 25% chance to hit it on the turn and another 25% to hit it on the river, correct me if I'm wrong...

I do understand what your are saying but when doing the calculations you dont exclude numbers just because you think someone else might have one. You do the calculation base on the ideal situation. You can check the tutorial videos on youtube or whereever and you would see they dont exclude numbers base on the assumption that a player might have one ( im referring to calculating equity). However if you reduce on the percentage after you calculate just incase someone has 1 or 2, i guess thats ok to, but what ever you do just know playing for flush draws or on the lower end of the percentage scale so you would have to play to suit
 
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I play differently depending on the stages of a tournament. Earlier it's super important to hit the best hand, I'll give u an example: first of all I'll buy a cheap flop (limp - donks never fold) even if it is AKspades; an ideal flop would be ofc some extra big (flop AAA, KKK, AKK, KKA and ofc RF/flush), in this case I'm not betting flop and trying to trap ppl; a good flop will be 2 spades and a gutshot, in this case i'm chasing showdon (gutshot 3 outs + 9 outs for flush and depends on the flop if u have a pair/one overcard gives me extra outs) but i'm not going all in, I call till river (even if villain bets big) to see if I hit my straight or flush; in case I got only 1 spade and 1 pair and someone bets big in this case I give up on the flop (in most cases I will not hit and do damage to my stack - that's why I prefer to limp with good hands, limping gives u a chance to see more flops) .
Later in a tournament I semibluff my opponnents with a flush draw, if he puts me all-in, I decide what he is betting,how many outs I have to beat his hand and go for shove or I give up.

BTW, I stick with an ultra tight style of play - I'm getting short stack often.
 
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Aalexandar

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I always semi bluff draws, religiously. It shows I have a strong hand, rather than being outed by my opponents when he realizes I'm drawing with a speculative hand. So when my hand hits the draw he could try to represent that draw because he thinks I hit something on the flop.
 
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