How do I cash in freerolls?

I have a problem. I play many, many freerolls (because I'm a cheapskate on a pension) on many different sites (888, pokerstars, FullTilt, Tiger Gaming and, just recently, Titan Poker as well as previously on party poker and PKR) and I always seem to fall short of cashing.

I am either wiped out within the the first few hands by someone calling or raising my monster pockets and then drawing out on me or being trapped late by someone slow playing their better hand.

Now, I enjoy playing poker for the sake of playing poker just like the rest of you but I would like to see some results coming through, at least every now and then.

At first I thought the poker sites were rigged but it has gone on for so long over so many different sites that I realize it must be me.

What am I missing or doing wrong? Or should I just give up the freerolls and invest some of my pension money and play higher stakes games (with my fingers and toes crossed)?:joyman:

Poker Larrikin said:

I have a problem. I play many, many freerolls (because I'm a cheapskate on a pension) on many different sites (888, PokerStars, FullTilt, Tiger Gaming and, just recently, Titan Poker as well as previously on Party Poker and PKR) and I always seem to fall short of cashing.

I am either wiped out within the the first few hands by someone calling or raising my monster pockets and then drawing out on me or being trapped late by someone slow playing their better hand.

Now, I enjoy playing poker for the sake of playing poker just like the rest of you but I would like to see some results coming through, at least every now and then.

At first I thought the poker sites were rigged but it has gone on for so long over so many different sites that I realize it must be me.

What am I missing or doing wrong? Or should I just give up the freerolls and invest some of my pension money and play higher stakes games (with my fingers and toes crossed)?:joyman:

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Hello. Welcome to cardschat.


I will try and give you the best advice possible. I will tell you what I think will be best, and I hope others will chime in to help (because I am not the best at advice).


First thing you need to do is post some hands from these freerolls for review.


We need to know everything. Stack sizes, position, table history, dynamics, villain tendencies, reads on villains, action on every street, bet sizes, etc., etc. Do this before investing any money in poker. Hopefully, we can see what kind of leaks, mistakes, tendencies you have or don't have.


Next thing you need to do, is listen. Don't just take every bit of advice everyone gives you, but consider all the advice given, how it applies to you, and take the good stuff to improve your game.


You say you are losing with big pockets, etc. But what we want to know is how. What happened flop/turn/river.


You have to be able to think like a poker player, on your feet.



Tournaments have extremely high variance, especially freerolls. It is going to be tough to get into the money. A good player might only be able to do this 1 in 20.



Read books. Study poker strategy. Play poker. Read more books. Post hands here. Weigh the advice you get. Use it to improve.



Put in the work to get better. You will get better.


But some people just won't listen. They will never get better because they just don't realize poker is a game that can never be mastered. You must work on your game often to improve.



I'm not saying you are one of these people. Just sometimes people think they are so good, and they are just the most unlucky people on this earth. Poker is a game where you will get beat with the best of it. You can play perfect, and still lose. The idea is, if you continue to make better decisions than your opponents, you will win over a large sample size.



There are sections of the forum for tournament hand review, cash, etc. Have a look around at the site, jump in, and hopefully we can help you get on track.


First you must determine your skill level, and what you need to do to get better so you can start getting some results.

This thread was started shortly before yours, and there are a lot of quality responses that pertain to your post, as well. Beanfacekilla is right. "Put in the work to get better. You will get better." It is that simple. One thing that I'm surprised that Beanface did not mention is poker video resources. A lot of pros advocate hand analysis and studying poker videos. Books are a great resource, but the consensus seems to be that they tend to give outdated advice and that videos are where the more modern approach can be found and studied. I am a new player, and books have helped me tremendously, but I really am surprised by the unique perspective that videos provide. A few of my favorite people to watch on Twitch are Jason Somerville, Jaime Staples, and Kevin Martin. Jason Somerville has a ton of videos on YouTube, as well. He plays many different poker variations and every format--cash, SNG, MTT, fast fold, and whatever else there is. From what I have seen, Jaime Staples and Kevin Martin specialize in MTTs. There are also many lecture videos, hand analysis videos, and coaching series. Besides pure strategy, both books and videos provide an edge in the way you approach and think about the game. The mental and philosophical aspect of poker are as important as the strategy, and that is where I think books make up a lot of ground. For me, videos have been most helpful in teaching me what kinds of questions I should be asking myself when playing. They help me think like a pro. Books have helped me with the mathematical and self-improvement side of things, but there are videos for that, as well. Beanfacekilla is also right in this: "Next thing you need to do, is listen. Don't just take every bit of advice everyone gives you, but consider all the advice given, how it applies to you, and take the good stuff to improve your game." Use every resource that you can. There is a world of advice out there, but it comes down to taking it all in and finding what is most effective for you and applying what you have learned. Freerolls are a good, inexpensive way to apply new skills, until you feel accomplished enough to move on.

Something that just occurred to me is this: internet resources--Twitch streamers, articles, coaching sites, and videos--are constantly evolving. They are constantly in tune with the changing nature of the game of poker. This seems like a good reason why pros might consider those types of resources better than books. Personally, books have helped me a lot, but I can see why this strain of thought is persistent.

vwls said:

This thread was started shortly before yours, and there are a lot of quality responses that pertain to your post, as well. Beanfacekilla is right. "Put in the work to get better. You will get better." It is that simple. One thing that I'm surprised that Beanface did not mention is poker video resources. A lot of pros advocate hand analysis and studying poker videos. Books are a great resource, but the consensus seems to be that they tend to give outdated advice and that videos are where the more modern approach can be found and studied. I am a new player, and books have helped me tremendously, but I really am surprised by the unique perspective that videos provide. A few of my favorite people to watch on Twitch are Jason Somerville, Jaime Staples, and Kevin Martin. Jason Somerville has a ton of videos on YouTube, as well. He plays many different poker variations and every format--cash, SNG, MTT, fast fold, and whatever else there is. From what I have seen, Jaime Staples and Kevin Martin specialize in MTTs. There are also many lecture videos, hand analysis videos, and coaching series. Besides pure strategy, both books and videos provide an edge in the way you approach and think about the game. The mental and philosophical aspect of poker are as important as the strategy, and that is where I think books make up a lot of ground. For me, videos have been most helpful in teaching me what kinds of questions I should be asking myself when playing. They help me think like a pro. Books have helped me with the mathematical and self-improvement side of things, but there are videos for that, as well. Beanfacekilla is also right in this: "Next thing you need to do, is listen. Don't just take every bit of advice everyone gives you, but consider all the advice given, how it applies to you, and take the good stuff to improve your game." Use every resource that you can. There is a world of advice out there, but it comes down to taking it all in and finding what is most effective for you and applying what you have learned. Freerolls are a good, inexpensive way to apply new skills, until you feel accomplished enough to move on.

Something that just occurred to me is this: internet resources--Twitch streamers, articles, coaching sites, and videos--are constantly evolving. They are constantly in tune with the changing nature of the game of poker. This seems like a good reason why pros might consider those types of resources better than books. Personally, books have helped me a lot, but I can see why this strain of thought is persistent.

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Great point about videos. I just forgot. I watch loads and loads of strategy videos.

Thanks guys

I have read a few books and have gone through the poker school on PokerStars. Funny thing about the PokerStars poker school, either nobody else that plays the freerolls has gone through it or they have and are doing the opposite because they know people like me are trying to follow the strategies it outlines.
I will have to learn how to post hands on this site as I am a techno ignoramous.
Otherwise sound advice from both and I will strive to put it to good use.
Cheers.

Just happened to me again. 10c SNG down to 6 players. Just had my stack reduced by somebody trapping me with JJ. Caught A/J on the button. Under the gun x2 (also short stacking but bigger than mine and tending to play loose) shoves. It folds to me, I call and we go head to head. He has K/7 off the flop comes rag, 7, J and I'm thinking I could be OK here. The turn is a K and I brick the river. This is what I am up against time and time again.

Poker Larrikin said:

Just happened to me again. 10c SNG down to 6 players. Just had my stack reduced by somebody trapping me with JJ. Caught A/J on the button. Under the gun x2 (also short stacking but bigger than mine and tending to play loose) shoves. It folds to me, I call and we go head to head. He has K/7 off the flop comes rag, 7, J and I'm thinking I could be OK here. The turn is a K and I brick the river. This is what I am up against time and time again.

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I have included a photo. This is just variance. However, one of the important things you need to know is the odds.



When someone has 2 different cards than you, they are live. If your opponent had like J-10, you would be a bigger favorite.



So, A-J doesn't really have the hammer lock on K-7 like you might think.




35% of the time, you will lose the pot. This is the part of poker that just sucks. Just because you get it in a favorite, doesn't mean you are guaranteed the pot. You are will win on average, over the long term (big sample), 64% of the time. It is a good spot, but it is a high-variance play.



In freerolls you will have to deal with these shenanigans. Just keep calm, and keep plugging away. They are free to play. You can use these tournaments to learn, free of charge.



The play will be stupid. Pepole will play bad. Landmines everywhere. Keep up the good work. You read the spot right, dude just sucked out.



I refer to 8t as "running bad". I think any seasoned poker player has had these things happen a bunch. You were a 2-1 favorite. Hopefully next time it works out.


You played against this particular players to range well. Just unlucky.

Forgot to add the pic. Here.

Learn more about table dynamic,try to isolate between Lag and Tag players and in the early phase don't get involved unless you got premium hands.In the middle phase use your position and try to steal blinds and ante even with marginal hand.

I started this way early and didn't have a chance to finish it, so I had not seen your image, nor had I seen Beanfacekilla's response. Beanface is right. (Oh, both posts were Beanface. Good stuff.)

Poker Larrikin said:

This is what I am up against time and time again.

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In that case, it can be helpful to change your perspective. It looks like you made the correct play, in that situation. Rather than seeing this as something that you were "up against", it could be seen as something that you were "involved in". What you were actually up against was the decision of whether or not to call the shove by the player with K7o. Once you made that choice, it was no longer your own actions that determined the outcome. Your part was done. You were able to put yourself in the best possible situation for success, but even the "best possible situation" is not the perfect situation. There is always a losing chance for you, and there is always a winning chance for your opponent. Pre-flop, you were something like a 2:1 favorite. On the flop, you were close to a 4:1 favorite.* To be favored does not guarantee anything. Your opponent had a 35% chance to win the hand. While your chances to win the hand were greater, there was also a chance that you would lose the hand. Nothing is for certain. All you can do is make decisions that increase your chance of winning. There is no decision that can guarantee your chance of winning.

One thing to consider from your statement above is how your stack was reduced in the first place, and how playing with a reduced stack influenced your decision once you were dealt AJ. Current events build upon past events. I am not an expert, but calling that shove with AJ seems to be the only thing that you could have done, in that situation. The result of this action was not a force of your own will. It might be better to focus your attention on situations where you could improve your decision-making, rather than on situations where you made a good decision that ended with a unfavorable results. For example, look at how you were trapped by JJ, earlier in the tournament. Is there something to be learned from that hand? Was there anything that could have clued you in to your opponent's intent? If not, then use this experience the next time you face this opponent or a similar situation. Something may clue you in, next time. It takes time and experience to recognize these types of situations. But, even when you can recognize it, you might be getting bluffed. Some players have enough experience to not only recognize what an opponent might be up to, but to also manipulate their opponent's perception of what they are up to, themselves. If you play as though you are scared of a flush, then an opponent might pretend that they have a flush, or you could even have the flush and be setting a trap. There are an endless number of situations to learn from, and it takes experience and knowing your opponents to capitalize on these situations. Study your opponents, study how they play, and make the best decisions that you can. As Beanfacekilla said about your play with AJ, "You read the spot right, dude just sucked out." So, now you can focus on making the right read in other spots.

*I am not a math wizard. These numbers are based on my attempts with an odds calculator. Also, I started typing this before I saw your image post.

Not making the money in Freerolls is not necessarily a sign of poor play. It's hard to achieve results in freerolls because of the large volume of entrants...

I suggest 2 options

1. Qualify for the Freerolls here on cardschat... The entrants level is low so you have a much better chance of getting ITM... also, the play is different to standard Freerolls... ie. There are actually a lot of good players and the games play at a slower rate so you have better chances to gain some success...

2. Try the micro stakes games on poker stars... The prize money extends to quite a few places so you might have better luck there

Good Luck at the tables...

replay

i play also a lot of freerolsl,i understand you what you saying,sometimes it doens't depeands of you,you must have luck,but sometimes is my mistake,but I wonn juste in party poker 250 free roll,a long time a go,and thats all,my advice ,keep playing you can't lose ,but you can winn one time..

plaing frerols your problem ))))

You must be more concentrated and follow a `poker school` like poker sites have.

Olgert1992 said:

plaing frerols your problem ))))

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I feel the need to comment on this.



Dude is trying to start a roll from freerolls. There is nothing wrong with that. Did you read the thread, before you commented?



You should support a fellow CCer, that is what the forum is for.

I agree with Beanfacekilla. "Quit freerolls" seems to be a common sentiment on these forums. It's either that, or it's "play only Cards Chat freerolls", with the idea that the competition will be more competent. I disagree with both of those types of statements on several grounds, but here are two reasons.

One, I see many players consistently in the top rankings of several freerolls. If freerolls were a waste of time or unbeatable, then people wouldn't be doing consistently well. Besides what I have seen on other sites, here is the leader-board for freerolls on America's Cardroom. The ACR leader-board is a weekly event. It is only Wednesday, and 135 players have already won or finished in the top ten of large fields, more than once. Freerolls on some sites pay out to as many as 60 places, much more than the 10 places in these ACR freerolls. This is documented proof that it is possible to find individual success in freerolls.

A second reason that I disagree with statements against freerolls, particularly statements on the grounds that freeroll players play poorly, is that a skilled player should be able to beat the poor players, regardless of how loose they are, regardless of how often they "suck out on the river", and regardless of how big of a "donk" they are. It may be more difficult to play against these types of players, but it takes patience and discipline to have success at any level or form of poker. Playing against "better" opponents will not be easier. It will present a new set of challenges, and playing in freerolls is an inexpensive way to learn how to deal with new challenges, in general. Regardless of who the competition is, playing consistently well will reap long-term rewards.

Here is a thread that relates to this topic. Many people have responded to that post with their positive statements about starting, and even building, a bankroll from freerolls alone.

Freerolls are basically crap because the payouts are small for HUUGE fields. But, I've found that most people that play in them genuinely aren't that great. I've seen people just open shove AA.... I mean who does that right? Well just about every time I've seen someone do that they get called and they double up.

I guess they just know people are calling with any two cards and they'd prefer to get it in ahead and hope they hold up.

The point is, the beginning stages are just people trying to double up quick or bust out. Just wait out those levels and play your big hands aggressively. Don't bluff and wait for the field to thin to really start playing poker.

Freerolls are huge lotttery, lost of patience and luck needed.
Try to read the players and avoid bluff at begin and if u get luck change for micro stakes...

just open shove top 10% people will gamble

I play looser, but against players who show weakness