How to change mindset in-order to improve

Hello all, I'd like to improve (As everyone else would like to also, duh) .Yet their is a basic/common problem with improving (at-least I find for myself), I'm stuck on a certain way of thinking, and I find this sort of line very difficult to over come.

The problem I'm having is that I seem to be thinking of things (not as they come but as I find them/see them, thus leading me to automatically assume what I'm doing at that sort of time, during the hand comes to me naturally, rather than actually thinking about it, I seem to be automatically doing it).

For example, on the BTN with AKs, UTG raises, I myself automatically take a glanc at UTG's Vpip/PRE stats, and go from their, now the problem isn't really here, yet it's usually post flop, assuming I 3 bet pre and they call, than I'd have some sort of line that I think is best to use vs this type of player (so more or less not really thinking/but just auto playing, some-what like auto pilot).

And same thing for majority of my games, yet this isn't really poker (It's something but you can't really call that poker, at-least not to me personally), now the other issue is that my thinking it's as if I already know exactly what I'm going to do before the flop comes, and before any further betting transpires, so I'd like to know exactly how to erase everything I've ever known, and go back to ground zero to rebuild myself?

How would you go about doing such a thing?

How does a player evolve if their thinking is automatically done prior to any info coming post flop? They can't correct and that's the problem I seem to have, and that's the issue I'd like to address the most.

What suggestions do you have to help me, revert back to ground zero to help me better myself?

Thank you all for any input you may have

I don't see a problem with planning out a hand roughly in advance, in fact it is desirable and you should always do it.

Automation is normal, after a while you get to know which kind of line is best in typical situations. For example I play 6 tables and I can't reinvent hot water in each hand, it would be silly... but I do have enough time to consider unexpected developments if I automate routine stuff.

Your problem seems to be more in the lack of ability to adjust on the fly when the opponent does something unexpected and your original rough plan is no longer good.

In your place I would dig into analysis more and not try to reinvent myself. Use HH analysis forum to get feedback from others.

One thing you may want to consider is that it's not optimal to take the same line against all types of players. As a somewhat artificial example, 3-betting AK from the button isn't the same if the opener is a LAG vs a super-nit who almost never open-raises.

Arjonius said:

One thing you may want to consider is that it's not optimal to take the same line against all types of players. As a somewhat artificial example, 3-betting AK from the button isn't the same if the opener is a LAG vs a super-nit who almost never open-raises.

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That would be something I'm trying to change upon because I do the exact same thing against majority of player pre/and post flop..This is some-what almost like a pre-programmed play, that I default back into because of so many years of playing, that is why I had posed the question, if it's possible to revert back to absolute nothing and build from the ground floor up once more in hopes to improve.


If it is possible than exactly how so do I achieve this? If it's not possible than how do I get rid of the clutter and actually store just what I want/need poker wise in my mind?

Starting over - It's pretty much just an act of pure will power that starts with a choice and a little bit of a mind game.
I have started over in several different venues when I found myself out in left field and I think it has been very valuable. You must be willing to first move backwards to move forward. This is how I did it:

Knowing I cannot "erase" what I already know to start over, I decided that everything I knew was a lie. Worthless crap. I had been led astray by my resources and the clutter made it difficult to tell gold from crap. Now this most certainly was not true (usually) - but since I could not discern where it went wrong or tell the difference between what was valuable or useless information - then it all had to go in order to start over.

Next I had to choose what was going to be my baseline for the new information - what resources could be trusted. In this case, will it be Harrington? Cardrunners? Arjonius (hey, could do a lot worse)? You can't dump your brain without a course of action to follow-up with.

From there you can branch out. Hope this helps or provokes some other ideas.

So you have an idea before the flop what you want to do with the hand?
and you will always do the same thing?
even if the other player gives you information to approach hand with caution etc?

as long as you can give yourself 2 or 3 alternitives (bet/raise/fold)
and as long as you are prepared to do one of the three you wont encounter a problem,

I would say being able to think pre flop - Ok I am either going to bet,raise,check/fold based on the texture of the board and how my opponant react's

Generally we should expect to profit in position and aim to break even out of position by playing efficiently and correctly based on holding made hands

cotta777 said:

So you have an idea before the flop what you want to do with the hand?
and you will always do the same thing?
even if the other player gives you information to approach hand with caution etc?

as long as you can give yourself 2 or 3 alternitives (bet/raise/fold)
and as long as you are prepared to do one of the three you wont encounter a problem,

I would say being able to think pre flop - Ok I am either going to bet,raise,check/fold based on the texture of the board and how my opponant react's

Generally we should expect to profit in position and aim to break even out of position by playing efficiently and correctly based on holding made hands

Click to expand...

It's more like (for example take the CC games), I've played with these players multiple times. So because of this, I already know in my mind what exactly I'm going to be doing vs certain players Pre/post flop..

So yesterday for example, I've played a certain player enough times, to know exactly how they play, so in a certain hand that ended up being my down fall, the player had raised from UTG, I was on the btn and 3bet with bunk btw (exactly as I thought was the best line vs this player, and knowing well enough that the player was going to call the 3bet), now the flop came and it was b.s and I knew the player had something but exactly what I had no clue.. So they bet (which I was already ready for), than the plan from that point on (before even thinking about it was a default call and/or 3bet), I chose to 3bet knowing I was repping nothing on that board, but also knowing they were going to call), they called as expected. On the turn, it didn't help me out, nor did it help them out, thus (I expected them to bet so I could shove garbage), but they checked (which I didn't expect them to check/but was ready for that), so I checked behind trying to rep a piece of that flop and/or the flush draw), the river hit, making the flush draw and only completing a straight+the flush, but I had neither, and they checked, I bet and they called (which I didn't expect them to call on the river ).


The problem is that I already for some reason, instead of actually thinking adopted to a, some-what like robotic thinking, where I know exactly what I'm going to do irregardless of what the other player does as if it's the correct play to constantly do that vs all these different types of players, so it's like my line of thinking in the hand is already made up prior to the actual hand being played out, now when I first started I was'nt like this, and would actually take my time in actually thinking about what the player/players are doing and thus would proceed from there, I hope that makes sense

I guess starting over would be reinventing yourself ,I do not see this as a bad idea poker is constantly evolving as a game,so one must constantly be evolving their approach as well.Yes the math will always stay the same ,odds and [probabilities do not change .Being married to one style of play or line of thinking is counterproductive imo .There are so many variables each time you play a hand one must be adaptable and be willing to change on the fly.Some times a complete overhaul is not required but just some tweeking ........gl to you.........scorp

it is hard brother....as i ve said in the past an experienced poker player will have a formula of what to do in any situation

You might not be able to erase what knowledge you think you have about poker, but you can let it become irrelevant.

Stop playing (and thus thinking about poker) for a long time, like a year maybe. Otherwise you will continually be reminded of the stuff you want/need to forget.

Pretty sure this would accomplish your desire to change you game, but I personally couldn't do it without some unwanted external influence forcing me to do it that way.

An alternative would be to focus on a different game than HE.

dj11 said:

You might not be able to erase what knowledge you think you have about poker, but you can let it become irrelevant.

Stop playing (and thus thinking about poker) for a long time, like a year maybe. Otherwise you will continually be reminded of the stuff you want/need to forget.

Pretty sure this would accomplish your desire to change you game, but I personally couldn't do it without some unwanted external influence forcing me to do it that way.

An alternative would be to focus on a different game than HE.

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It's not a force it's something I want myself to achieve..Yet at the same time, I don't want to stop playing for an entire year (as I love the game that much) .


I also would like to thank everyone that has so far put something into the thread for me to think about, maybe "electroshock therapy", could actually come in handy now (poorly used joke I admit)

naruto_miu said:

It's more like (for example take the CC games), I've played with these players multiple times. So because of this, I already know in my mind what exactly I'm going to be doing vs certain players Pre/post flop..

So yesterday for example, I've played a certain player enough times, to know exactly how they play, so in a certain hand that ended up being my down fall, the player had raised from UTG, I was on the btn and 3bet with bunk btw (exactly as I thought was the best line vs this player, and knowing well enough that the player was going to call the 3bet), now the flop came and it was b.s and I knew the player had something but exactly what I had no clue.. So they bet (which I was already ready for), than the plan from that point on (before even thinking about it was a default call and/or 3bet), I chose to 3bet knowing I was repping nothing on that board, but also knowing they were going to call), they called as expected. On the turn, it didn't help me out, nor did it help them out, thus (I expected them to bet so I could shove garbage), but they checked (which I didn't expect them to check/but was ready for that), so I checked behind trying to rep a piece of that flop and/or the flush draw), the river hit, making the flush draw and only completing a straight+the flush, but I had neither, and they checked, I bet and they called (which I didn't expect them to call on the river ).


The problem is that I already for some reason, instead of actually thinking adopted to a, some-what like robotic thinking, where I know exactly what I'm going to do irregardless of what the other player does as if it's the correct play to constantly do that vs all these different types of players, so it's like my line of thinking in the hand is already made up prior to the actual hand being played out, now when I first started I was'nt like this, and would actually take my time in actually thinking about what the player/players are doing and thus would proceed from there, I hope that makes sense

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Yeah I know what you mean I do the same in cash games play looser I will triple barrel alot sometimes if the game is right.
but in tournaments I tend to play more solid and wait for good spots and
playable cards rather than exploits.

You will probably find that your getting less ev by exploiting someone who is capable of 2 barrelling if your trying to exploit him too much by adding in garbage hands,

I think the best fix would be for you two get back into the habit of just having that confidence in your game you know that you can still crush the game you are playing by just making the right choices and decisions and playing the right spots extracting max value, and losing minimum amounts when your beat.

you dont need to do anything too fancy to maximise all profit because the variance will be alot higher if your targetting big bluffs without the right equity in your own hands playing extra loose - then it could even end up resulting in a -EV tactic,

simply by using good table choice and targetting weaker players who will give pots away to you and become to predictable with their ranges etc or are just paying you off...

In my oppinion your better off staying out of each others ways and just taking the simple money at the cash tables

dj11 said:

You might not be able to erase what knowledge you think you have about poker, but you can let it become irrelevant.

Stop playing (and thus thinking about poker) for a long time, like a year maybe. Otherwise you will continually be reminded of the stuff you want/need to forget.

Pretty sure this would accomplish your desire to change you game, but I personally couldn't do it without some unwanted external influence forcing me to do it that way.

An alternative would be to focus on a different game than HE.

Click to expand...

Good idea... Suffer for year.. Lol... Should work though.