Heads Up Bots

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scooby_doo

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So, another person has told me that a new bot is playing at PP on Heads Up Limit games.
At first I dismissed this because everyone says Bots are not currently that good.
However, I was given the following information.
- It uses some methods to determine its opponents hand range. Then uses PS methods to determine the best course of action based on its current hole cards being. Raise or Fold. It never just Calls.
- Sits waiting at a table 24/7. When someone joins the table it immeadiatly sits at another table opened by PP.
- Only plays $1/$2 tables.
- Starting chip size is always $150.
- Doesnt respond to chat.
Anyone else seen or heard about this bot, surely PP must know its not a person as such unless they can stay awake for very long periods of time ?
Mark
 
SYWTWAF

SYWTWAF

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I'm not sure if this is directly related, but there's a prominent discussion going on at 2+2 right now (see: thread), regarding the feasibility of coming up with a game theory optimal solution for poker. Quite a few high stakes player seem to believe it's possible (with varying views on how far away we are from actually having a solution for NLHE), while durrr stands apart as a notable player who disagrees. They're negotiating a prop bet involving durrr playing a GTO-approximating bot at HULHE. I'm only half way through the thread, and am not sure if the terms of the bet are fully sorted out yet. A lot of the technical discussion goes over my head right now, but I nonetheless find it very interesting to try and follow, and have been inspired to look closer into what GT is all about.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

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The reason I think a bot would have the edge at LHE games of this kind is they will never get tired & never get bored.
 
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scooby_doo

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I'm not sure if this is directly related, but there's a prominent discussion going on at 2+2 right now (see: thread), regarding the feasibility of coming up with a game theory optimal solution for poker. Quite a few high stakes player seem to believe it's possible (with varying views on how far away we are from actually having a solution for NLHE), while durrr stands apart as a notable player who disagrees. They're negotiating a prop bet involving durrr playing a GTO-approximating bot at HULHE. I'm only half way through the thread, and am not sure if the terms of the bet are fully sorted out yet. A lot of the technical discussion goes over my head right now, but I nonetheless find it very interesting to try and follow, and have been inspired to look closer into what GT is all about.
Yes, I have been reading this too. Also, there is allot of work going on over at PokerAI which is where I think this new bot was developed. How it automatically works out its oponents hand range is both rather clever and also abit worrying. However, I am not sure how accurate automated oponent modelling currently is. If it is as good as a top poker player then it will obviously have an edge as one would assume it will never make a mistake, unlike humans.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

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This would be a major boost for live poker if it happened all of the time?
 
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scooby_doo

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This would be a major boost for live poker if it happened all of the time?
Well, i dont want to publish usernames without total proof but i have been following it on PP over the last 7 days and everytime i login its sitting there waiting for someone to play against. I logged in a different times of the day and night so i cannot believe its a real person unless they are suffering from insomnia or something. I watched it play against others and it either Raises or Folds. I timed some of its moves and they seem to be random between 1 and 10 seconds. The games i saw (not many) seemed to imply it was winning games around 3:1 overall. I tried to get some more information from PokerAI but there main programming threads around Heads Up are locked.
 
SofaKingCrazy

SofaKingCrazy

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I just don't see the advantage for a site to do this. Sure a bot could win good but once word got out you would lose your serious grinders, especially the one's who have loss to this.

Also, if a site clearly stated to it's players that a bot was sitting at the HU table I'm sure some of those players would take the challenge at sit down with it.

Have you contacted support? There's always the possibility (however rare it may be) that it's multiple people playing on one account. Not sure of the advantage of that either but possible I guess.

Oh and though I don't play limit, when I'm HU the only time I call is when they limp into my BB and I don't want to play the hand. Otherwise it's raise or fold... always.

:evil:
 
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gnarus

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Scooby, I can't play party poker as an American but aren't stats tracked at thepokerdb.com or some other site? I wouldn't put much stock in the fact he isn't chatting especially if he is multiplaying heads up games though. Is always raising or folding an uncommon tactic at limit?
 
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dan abnormal

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Why not just give the user names to security and have anyone else who has seen this do the same. Also Im sure a few folks at 2+2 and here might want to check out these user. Maybe if folks PM'd you, you could privately give them your list, some folks live for that kind of stuff, some folks could just keep outing these people if they were bots and Im sure someone who is high raking roller will catch the eye of security on some of these sites.
 
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scooby_doo

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Scooby, I can't play party poker as an American but aren't stats tracked at thepokerdb.com or some other site? I wouldn't put much stock in the fact he isn't chatting especially if he is multiplaying heads up games though. Is always raising or folding an uncommon tactic at limit?
Yes I agree, not chatting doesnt mean anything. Also, it could be multiple people using the same account, although i didnt think that was allowed. I have seen it play 8 different games at once. But I do know that there was allot of talk/frenzy on PokerAI recently about some people that had finished a bot which was going to be tested using real money on PP. Maybe its not this user though. Personally, I wasnt too worried about any bots in the past but they seem to be saying that they have come up with a way of "Automated Opponent Hand Reading", which to me could prove to be an unfair advantage over us mortals.
 
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