having a plan

A

anthony c

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Hi there

What is the thought process when u sit down and observe players and what are u
looking for??What tendencies and how to use this info into have a plan:confused:

I heard that some pro said you have to have a plan pre flop and going into the flop,turn or river
but i dont know what exactly what he means and what plan whats the general
thought process there??

If any 1 could plz help me
Ty
 
Worak

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You won't get an easy answer to a question as general as that but nevertheless I'll try and give you an idea.

Identify the weak players at your table, isolate them with good holdings when in position, take them to valuetown.

That might sound easy but often enough it isn't.

When you get more experienced you'll learn that poker is not about the big pots but about making the right decisions over and over again through hundreds of thousands (better millions) of hands played.
 
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RVladimiro

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There really is no straightforward answer I think. I rarely have a plan. I have pairs sorted pre and post flop, playing made hands with initiative is easy against bad players. Problem is usually draws, bluffs and so on. It is also much easier to have a plan IP if we have information about the villain.

I tend to have a plan for maniacs that involves under representing my hand to get a shove but it's not much of a plan really, slowplaying made hands, min raising to spike their ego, betting small into them.

When people talk about a plan for the hand it's what to do on each street I believe. More than often I find myself thinking "erm I didn't consider this, now what?" I think it comes with time, study and practice.
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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Okay, I have not even begun to master this but I'll pass on what I thought was gold from some pros.
#1 - Don't go crazy trying to pay attention to everyone at the table. The two guys you will most likely want to make a move on are the two to your left. The two guys most likely to make a move on you are the two guys to your right. Start there. Find out if you can or should be making a move on these guys. Find out if those other guys are capable of making a move on you. IE, the button raises big on your BB. Do you give him respect or do you call him down or even raise with K9? You won't know if you haven't invested some time in him.
#2 - Start with identifying styles - Tight? Loose? Passive? Aggressive? Will they fold to a 3 bet? Do they feel compelled to call. Are they compelled to see a flop way too many times?
#3 - Identify how much they are paying attention to the rest of the table. This is huge because you can identify players who are just playing their hands and probably not thinking about what another player might be playing (until it's too late). If they are looking at their preflop hand well ahead of their turn then they are not paying attention to anyone else. If they are not looking at other players when the flop comes then they are not paying attention to anyone else. - BTW, a note here for you - do not look at your hand until the action is on you for 2 reasons - 1) You need to focus on everyone else and not your hand (it's not going anywhere) and 2) If you look at your hand and it's not playable then your interest in what everyone else is doing goes to zero since you are not playing.
If you find a guy who is not looking at the flop but at his opponents - well that's a sign of someone who knows what they are doing (or at least trying to). Be wary of that guy and find out if he might be someone to avoid if you can.
One thing I am doing now is identifying the guy or guys that I think I will have to go through to get to the final table. He is usually the guy with all the chips and I will not be able to afford a mistake against him - but I still do want him heads up because he can double me up.
As far as a preflop plan goes - it is determined by what you are finding out. Sometimes it is as easy as "The next time everyone folds to me on the button I'm going to put out a big raise with ATC - because I can."
Sometimes it's "I have got to get in hand with this guy becuase I know he will fold to a reraise on the flop."
And it can even be "I am not going to get involved in hand with that guy - I have no idea what he's doing and he's got me totally perplexed."
Now you notice a lot of this is not physical tells. Get a Joe Navarro book and start studying. And again, don't try to learn them all at once. Grab two or three and work them at the table for a while before getting a new set to work.
 
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anthony c said:
I heard that some pro said you have to have a plan pre flop and going into the flop,turn or river
but i dont know what exactly what he means and what plan whats the general
thought process there??

If any 1 could plz help me
Ty
Click to expand...
Having a plan is in refernce to stuff like > okay.. we have 'x' number of bb's.. if I c/C villain on flop.. what will I do on the turn 'if'?
another> okay I have ~25bb's.. (w oesd & overs).. if I bet 2/3 pot flop do I have enough behind for FE if villain checkraises me here? Hmm... nope.. ok then so perhaps I should bet out ~2/5pot so I'll have a good-sized bet left to crai over villain 'if' they check-raise me on this board.
(^ just one small example of many). Basically though, have a plan going forward in your hands. (simpler stuff would include > evaluating the size of your stack (& effective stacks), knowing "hmm.. if I call flop here.. then I'm also likely going to be facing a bet on the turn & that will then ..?? So I guess I'll just > ....??? " Have a plan! .. Think ahead in the hand (get it?)
 
Poker Orifice

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I'm having problems with the site timing out on me & was unable to edit post how I wanted. So this here is the edited version, lol.

Having a plan is in refernce to stuff like > okay.. we have 'x' number of bb's.. if I c/C villain on flop.. what will I do on the turn 'if'?
another> okay I have ~25bb's.. (w oesd & overs).. if I bet 2/3 pot flop do I have enough behind for FE for a CRAI if villain checkraises me on the flop here? or will villain then be priced in to call? Hmm... nope.. ok then so perhaps I should bet out ~2/5pot so I'll have a good-sized bet left to crai over villain 'if' they check-raise me on this board.
(^ just one small example of many). Basically though, have a plan going forward in your hands. (simpler stuff would include > evaluating the size of your stack (& effective stacks), knowing "hmm.. if I call flop here.. then I'm also likely going to be facing a bet on the turn & that will then ..?? So I guess I'll just > ....??? " Have a plan! .. Think ahead in the hand (get it?)
If not... I could try to post some more examples I guess.
 
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anthony c said:
Hi there

What is the thought process when u sit down and observe players and what are u
looking for??What tendencies and how to use this info into have a plan:confused:

I heard that some pro said you have to have a plan pre flop and going into the flop,turn or river
but i dont know what exactly what he means and what plan whats the general
thought process there??

If any 1 could plz help me
Ty
Click to expand...
imo, you're basically talking about two separate things here (I sort of answered the 2nd half in my post above here... errr.. ahh.. umm... well I tried to.. sort of).

First part of your post > looking around table & "observing" others & having a plan is different. Typically you're looking at the other players in an effort to identify their playing styles & then 'making a plan' for how you're likely to play vs. them. (could go into GREAT detail regarding stuff to look for in others... appearance & how they play of course). ie. looking to raise to isolate a weak limper. ie. looking to 3bet a LatePosition player who appears to be raising often once blinds go up a bit (tourney play)... the guy who's sportin' shades, an FTOPS jersey & FTP hat.
 
Nathan Williams

Nathan Williams

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When I sit down at a table (full ring) I am looking for at least one player whose VPIP is above 30%. Thats pretty much it.

Having a plan for a hand is something that I preach about a lot. It basically means that you learn to think about the hand from the perspective of all 4 streets instead of in a vacuum, i.e. my hand looks pretty right now.

A good example might be a top pair hand on a heavily coordinated and wet board when you are out of position. Or an middle pair type hand when you are out of position.

You have to learn to assess the value of your hand given that you are probably going to face future bets and there are going to be lots of cards that you hate to see. Hence, it might be better to just give up now and cut your losses. Hope this helps.
 
eberetta1

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My plan includes, being properly bankrolled at a table(so I do not look like the weak player such as bringing in $20 when no one at the table is sitting with less than $100), not chasing a straight when there is a flush possible, not chasing a flush when a boat is possible. A plan can also include how much up do you want to be ahead before leaving, how long you might play, how many frequent player points you want to earn that session. which of several games is your best value. If I can do all the things to make all these questions already answered, so my game is on auto pilot, it makes my session so much more comfortable. When I am comfortable, there is less chance of being distracted and getting your nut hand timed out because you got up to get a drink of water or were looking at a different table while multi-tabling.
 
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Eddie Leeway

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My plans are pretty basic at this point, but I'm learning a ton on this site that I can incorporate into my game....thanks MediaBlitz, and PokerOffice
 
rayphil83

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imo you just have to take it hand by hand. Im still learning on how to put players on ranges but you just have to observe the play of others and make your own calls. i was told that every hand has its own story and it is told by your bet. So bet with a purpose...gl to all..
 
LombardiStix

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I think PO nailed the "plan" portion of this post. Thinking about your next step... and therefore making your first step a logical one. So as a teacher we are expected to work backwards. We look at the goal or objectives of a unit as defined by the assessment we are giving at the end and then progress backwards. We make plans on the best ways to get students to the intended goal. You usually have a relatively simple goal in poker, but looking ahead at the next street you can tailor your early actions to fit your eventual goal.
 
MediaBLITZ

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I don't know - this may be irrelevant but it just hit me.
You just can't have a plan if you don't have objectives and your objectives are pretty much where you want to be at any given stage. Obviously the final stage objective is pretty clear - you want to rake in that pot. But if you don't have objectives before the final bet you may be out flapping in the breeze working on hopes and wishes.
For example in chess the final objective is to get a check mate. But first you have to work towards a primary objective of controlling the center of the board.
What is your objective after the flop hits? Where do you want to be? The turn? The river? Is there reaction plan based on how those cards come out (repping, etc). Does that plan fit with what you represented preflop? Now a beginner will only answer these questions with his own hand and doesn't give much consideration to the other player/s.
I don't know - I'm still formulating what I'm saying here. Anyone get where I'm coming from?
 
LombardiStix

LombardiStix

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MediaBLITZ said:
I don't know - this may be irrelevant but it just hit me.
You just can't have a plan if you don't have objectives and your objectives are pretty much where you want to be at any given stage. Obviously the final stage objective is pretty clear - you want to rake in that pot. But if you don't have objectives before the final bet you may be out flapping in the breeze working on hopes and wishes.
For example in chess the final objective is to get a check mate. But first you have to work towards a primary objective of controlling the center of the board.
What is your objective after the flop hits? Where do you want to be? The turn? The river? Is there reaction plan based on how those cards come out (repping, etc). Does that plan fit with what you represented preflop? Now a beginner will only answer these questions with his own hand and doesn't give much consideration to the other player/s.
I don't know - I'm still formulating what I'm saying here. Anyone get where I'm coming from?
Click to expand...

I think you are accurately exposing the "weakness" of my oversimplified short post. The other side of teaching is the flexibility. Developing a comprehensive plans and then being able to adjust to a flop or turn which changes your odds should be included. To put it in a simple example would be thinking one street ahead and that includes what your opponents possible "actions are". IF I bet this much what will be her/his reaction on the turn. Am I making the same bet if the card is an action card and a blank?

To maximize the impact of your current bet in relation to achieving your desired result, you must consider the future rounds of action.
 
MediaBLITZ

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LombardiStix said:
I think you are accurately exposing the "weakness" of my oversimplified short post. The other side of teaching is the flexibility. Developing a comprehensive plans and then being able to adjust to a flop or turn which changes your odds should be included. To put it in a simple example would be thinking one street ahead and that includes what your opponents possible "actions are". IF I bet this much what will be her/his reaction on the turn. Am I making the same bet if the card is an action card and a blank?

To maximize the impact of your current bet in relation to achieving your desired result, you must consider the future rounds of action.
Click to expand...
What do you suppose some primary objectives could be ?
  • Control of the action?
  • Force opponent into diffcult decisons?
  • Force opponent into mistakes?
  • Represent hitting the flop if you can?
 
LombardiStix

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MediaBLITZ said:
What do you suppose some primary objectives could be ?
  • Control of the action?
  • Force opponent into diffcult decisons?
  • Force opponent into mistakes?
  • Represent hitting the flop if you can?
Click to expand...

That is a completely different aspect than I was addressing. Deciding what to do is contingent on many variables. The only point I intended to make was shifting a mindset from "what do I bet right now" to "how does this bet affect future rounds and how can I make this decision so that it is helpful to my future cause as well as my current cause"
 
MediaBLITZ

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LombardiStix said:
That is a completely different aspect than I was addressing. Deciding what to do is contingent on many variables. The only point I intended to make was shifting a mindset from "what do I bet right now" to "how does this bet affect future rounds and how can I make this decision so that it is helpful to my future cause as well as my current cause"
Click to expand...
Well yeah - chess also has a bunch of variables but those don't really change the objectives - just HOW you get to those objectives. Totally possible I am trying to make something out of what is just not there.
I do appreciate your posts though - it has provoked some thought on my side (as misguided as it might be). ;)
 
dj11

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Basic plan is to enjoy the experience. With more experience you will understand that winning is more enjoyable. You will find that winning is a result of experience.

I believe it was baudib1 who said....'run better'. (another thread)

But how do you run better? Well, you only need to run better than those at your table. But how do they run? Your job, should you accept it, is to figure out how they run, so that you can run better than them.

Ultimate trick here is to find fish in a pasture.
 
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Eddie Leeway

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The experience is the key and I enjoy playing, but finding the fish in the pasture is what I'm always searching for
 
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your looking for anything.....anything that gives off what his hand is...obviously betting patterns and past hands are a great way to tell also i find that one thought really helps me.....some people like to say your looking good your glowing....well i feel like to an extent EVERYONE in cards are the same way....they just look like they are glowing if they have a big hand...
 
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