Good place to start?

Ok so I know the rules of poker, and I know enough to win a freeroll or two. But how do I get better? Are books a good start? Videos?

I like watching the instructions videos on youtube and was thinking of getting one of those subscriptions - but they are pretty darn expensive, at least $100. The only one that seems to have a reasonable price is Real Poker Training at $30 for 1 month. Is this an ok place to start? Any sugggestions?

I tried reading Phil Gordon's Little Green book but fell asleep, and I'm trying to read Harrington which is good - but I don't have much patience to read beyond the first chapter

Heh, you sound like me - I had (and still have) great difficulty in knuckling down to some studying.

Don't bother with the instructional sites until you have at least some sort of bankroll to work with. It's all well and good paying $100 (or whatever) to sign up for one of them, but if that $100 is coming out of your $200 BR it makes little economic sense. Books can be picked up relatively cheaply in comparison, and provide a better starting point, as a lot of instructional videos at places like CR and PXF assume you have basic knowledge which if you are just starting out in poker you may not have.

The problem with you reading is that if you don't have the patience and reading a book is becoming a chore for you, you most likely won't be taking anything in. Take notes of what you read. Draw pretty pictures. Intermix your 'study' time with your playing poker time. Do something, anything, that helps make reading less of a 'chore' to you. If you are 'into' poker you will find that invariably the more you play, the more you want to learn, and the less of a chore your poker study will become.

Experiment with different types of poker if you haven't already. You will soon settle on a niche which you prefer, be it SNGs, big tournaments, ring games, Omaha, whatever.

Also, look in your library for poker books. You'd be amazed at some of the stuff you can find for free.

I had the same problem with Phil Gordon's series when I first got it. It's amazing how much more sense it made to me once I had some real experience behind me though.

Just about everything I have learned has come from a combination of books, online strategy articles/forums, and playing non-freerolls with non-maniacs. I highly recommend the CC money-added real-money tournaments. Most of the play is quite solid, and it's a lot more fun learning while playing with clueful friends.

One other thing that I wish I had done earlier was start using Poker Tracker to evaluate my play. I was playing a lot of hands that were unprofitable when I first started, and I didn't realize it until I had a way to go back and review my stats after a session.

While there is nothing wrong with investing in your education (poker or otherwise) there is plenty of good, free information available to you which should get you started off in the right direction. You don't need to spend a fortune on video lessons to be successful at poker.

The HOH books are good but yeah I have trouble reading for too long without dozing off. The HOH III workbook is a useful one - the good thing about that one is that you can just do a single hand for 10 mins and put the book down.

Posting hand histories and answering hand histories in forums is a good way of learning I think. There's a lot of snobbery attached to hand history analysis it seems.You may find that there are those people who are itching to point out your mistakes and possibly ridicule you

Just post when you need advice or have a question, be honest, don't be embarassed about your plays, listen to all the advice, don't get annoyed at the replies or become over-defensive of your plays .Some replies will be useless but some will be like gold.

I'm not a great poker theorist but I'll say what I believe is correct and if it's pointed out that I'm wrong then I have learned something.

cparker said:

Ok so I know the rules of poker, and I know enough to win a freeroll or two. But how do I get better? Are books a good start? Videos?

I like watching the instructions videos on youtube and was thinking of getting one of those subscriptions - but they are pretty darn expensive, at least $100. The only one that seems to have a reasonable price is Real Poker Training at $30 for 1 month. Is this an ok place to start? Any sugggestions?

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Stay awake thru the Little Green Book, you'll be much better served than $30 for a month of real poker training (whatever that is), and money ahead. HoH doesn't impart much knowledge until beyond chapter 1, either.

If reading isn't your thing, look intp getting these as books on tape. The DVD series Poker Insight is good,too.

Well, the only way to get better is to play more often. If you're trying to improve your overall game, then more experience is going to do just that. You can read books on how advanced cash-games or advanced tournaments strategy, but until you can actually put what you have learned into action, just knowing it wont do you much good. You cant just know the how, but also the why. A play in a book might sound silly to you because from your thinking, it doesnt make sense but at the same time it might be a very profitable play in the long run, but maybe not immediately. So, dont just read the books but actually study and learn what is being taught. And then imply that new knowledge into your games. Also, dont try reading through the book like its a novel. Once you've gotten passed the introduction and the basic 'how to play the game' section and onto the really good stuff, take your time. Read a chapter and understand it. Know how to apply it in situations. If you dont understand it, remember it, or whatever. Re-read it as many times as you need do. It might take you a while to finish, but just reading and not understanding what you've just read or how to apply it isn't going to be much help.

As for reading books, Barnes and Nobles is great. I haven purchased a book in a while but I go there a few hours a day and study up on a chapter or two. They usually have a decent selection to choose from, like HOH.

cparker said:

Ok so I know the rules of poker, and I know enough to win a freeroll or two. But how do I get better?

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man, you are good. i didn't know how to do that until a while after i came here. and it seems i have forgotten it in the meantime, but that's beside the point. how do you get better? there are basically 2 ways: a) play more, and b) study.

those two go hand in hand, you can't do one without the other. however imo, definitely the first one is waaAAaay more important. once you have several thousand hands under your belt, a lot more things in either books, videos, or whatever else you use will make sense. as to reading, for a start, i would suggest looking around here - read up on the strategy tab, the hand history forums, and do look into the strategy forum, if you are up to it. of course, you can't go wrong reading the books either, but i (too) found those a little more difficult to digest at first.

good luck!

zachvac said:

Also, look in your library for poker books. You'd be amazed at some of the stuff you can find for free.

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^^^^
this, beleive it or not I read books other than poker lol, but did ask once if hey had anything, then the librarian looked at me then at the computers, so I had to look it up myself but found some, older but good ones. For example the first Super system,which is a very expensive book.

If you're having trouble with Harrington on Hold'em, put it in the bathroom. That's what I did.

^^^Truly a beginner tip. Everybody knows that one.

I think someone mentioned it already but getting to know your own game through tracking software (Poker Tracker or Poker Office) is probably the best thing you can do. Knowing your game will allow you to more easily relate and identify mistakes when you are reading your books. Relating to the material should help you to stay more interested.

1. play 100k hands of whatever limits you can afford to play under bankroll management (even .01/.02 NL)
2. while you are not playing, read gordon's books, harrington's books, and vorhaus's books
3. read forums
4. re-evaluate and repeat

I'm surprised you've not had fun with the little green book. I found it really really easy to read and got through it in a day or so. I'd certainly recommend it as a read for people who have some basic understanding of pot odds etc, and are looking for some general advice.

HOH 1 and 2 are much longer and more difficult to read, but so incredibly full of information, brilliantly useful concepts and insightful hand analysis. I don't see how you could play tournament poker well without understanding some of the concepts in there - M for example.

I guess though, the question is "do you enjoy reading?" or even "do you learn by reading". If you get bored easily whilst reading, wading through the 1000 pages or more of the HOH series is going to be difficult. If you think you'd learn more through watching videos then maybe that is the way to do it.

pokertracker

books

SavagePenguin said:

If you're having trouble with Harrington on Hold'em, put it in the bathroom. That's what I did.

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Add beans to your diet for a faster read.......

These responses are great! Please keep them coming. A little more about me -

I have used Tournament indicator and learned a little about M from Marty Smith's vids. So I know enough to start pushing/stealing when the M gets small. I used to think these peope were crazy - why is everyone pushing all of a sudden?? But now I know why - and its a great tool!

So I'm hoping to pick up a few more tools - or at least understand why people are doing what they do in tournaments.

Hmm, the problem with books is that you can't read them in a couple of days and expect your game to immediately improve.

That's not to say don't use them, but ones like Little Green Book and HOH aren't for beginners and need to be assimilated in little bits at a time (like reading in the bathroom) and re-read.

If you haven't watched some of the videos posted here by members during the past year, I'd recommend checking as many of those out as well.

cparker said:

So I know enough to start pushing/stealing when the M gets small. I used to think these peope were crazy - why is everyone pushing all of a sudden??

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I used to think the same thing. Harrington on Hold'em Volume II covers this fairly well, and drastically improved my endgame and gave me a lot more confidence head-up.

I totally agree that you should get and use PokerTracker. You can use the trial version at first, but you might as well buy it if you are serious as it is well worth the money.

As far as Vanquish's "Play 100k hands at $.01/$.02" idea... I wouldn't. Heck, I don't even have 100k hands and I've evolved from the $.01/$.02 to the $.10/$.25 tables. And I've been well rolled for the $.25/$.50 for awhile now (even after cashing out all my deposited money), but I just haven't had the motivation to move up yet.
Playing 100k hands of $.01/$.02 just seems painful.

1. Read more hours than you play each day.
2. Use PokerTracker.
3. Post some hands in the CC hand analysis section.
4. Reply to some hands in ^^^^^^
5. Watch some poker videos.
6. Play small limits, but move up as your bankroll dictates.
7. Move down limits quickly if moving up asplodes in your face.

Ok I've downloaded and installed pokertracker 3 beta. I've imported all my hand histories. I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at with all the graphs and tables. What should I look at first?

The most noticeable thing I can see is that I'm down $25 in tournaments according to PokerTracker. An odd thing - is that it doesn't show me ITM in any of my tournaments - and I'm pretty sure that my last sit and go was ITM. Surprisingly I'm up $1 in cash games.

SavagePenguin said:

Playing 100k hands of $.01/$.02 just seems painful.

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meh maybe i over-value experience

Nugsy's room has a poker school quite inexpensive and u can win some your money back playing ion tournaments open to only those enroll in their school. I didn't join it, but my nephew said it was very infomative and he had realtime instructors. He DID however say that he wouldn't play on the rest of that sites games!!

you can learn by someone you know that is good. they could teach you from there style then you could make your own. lots of times books work too

vanquish said:

1. play 100k hands of whatever limits you can afford to play under bankroll management (even .01/.02 NL)
2. while you are not playing, read gordon's books, harrington's books, and vorhaus's books
3. read forums
4. re-evaluate and repeat

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I would not deposit till you can win the free money in free rolls and such. This a great list but I would play- play chips and free rolls first unless you have deep pockets $$$ Otherwise, you run the risk of getting discouraged and end up in hole. Online is not same as live. Its poker too yeah, but it requires different play and stratagy. Read all the info you can handle this site has great info.Play chips are a weak currency( can sell them and Full tilt has a play money TOURNEY for cash as prizes 5oo k buy in. If you can be patient you wont fall into the common mistake of jumping in before ready. I'm just saying..............

MR TOYMAKER said:

I would not deposit till you can win the free money in free rolls and such. This a great list but I would play- play chips and free rolls first unless you have deep pockets $$$ Otherwise, you run the risk of getting discouraged and end up in hole. Online is not same as live. Its poker too yeah, but it requires different play and stratagy. Read all the info you can handle this site has great info.Play chips are a weak currency( can sell them and Full tilt has a play money TOURNEY for cash as prizes 5oo k buy in. If you can be patient you wont fall into the common mistake of jumping in before ready. I'm just saying..............

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Play chip poker is nothing like real money poker. You might as well play on the XBOX against a computer.

If you really want to learn, you need to decide how much you can afford to invest in your bankroll for education purposes. Then take that number and decide what to play using bankroll management guidelines. The bottom line is you might lose that deposit (so don't deposit what you can't afford to lose), but even if you do it's just part of your "tuition".

I have about $60 in freeroll money now, which is enough to play $1.20 SnG's by Ferguson's standards. The only problem is that I can't beat the $1.20 SnG .