Going all in?

Hey Chatters,

Can anyone please give me their theory on going all in. Seems, every time I go all in I loose. I either step into a mess or get sucked out. It appears to me that is a difficult and complicated situation to be in.

Usually, when I get below 10 x BB, I start looking for a hand to go all in with. Then, the pros say, If the bet is more than one third of your stack, to go all in.

Maybe things are not as simple as it seems. Last nite, I got sucked out several times by going all in, when I thought I had the winner. Most times, I make a good read and have the best hand at the time, but when 4th street of the river comes around, things change.



Thanks,

mike

Hey Mike! What hands are you shoving with, and in what position? Is the field open when you shove, or are there raisers ahead of you? Is this an MTT, a SNG, a cash game?

It depends like everything in poker

When should you start thinking about going all in?

Hey,

While playing in freerolls and play money tourneys, at what size is your big blind when you are looking for a hand to go all in.

I have always been told that once you get to, or below, 10 x BB, it is time to start looking for a all in hand. Theory being, any thing less, is not enough chips to cause other players to fold.

I would like to hear some input on how other players feel about this. Now, this is only in the mickey mouse games, (freerolls and play money Or maybe small real money tourneys or sngs,

Thanks,

mike

I would separate my play from freerolls/play money and real money.
I would be more careful at real money when considering all ins.
Books will tell you (which you mention above) 10xBB and less would you consider moves like all-ins. Its called the "red zone".
Another consideration is the structure (time of blinds), if moving all-in a necessary tactic or not.

I prefer to use the M value (which is how many trips around the table you have), because it factors in the antes.

At 10M (or even earlier), you should definitely be thinking about it, but you are not yet desperate. Don't forget that position still matters. In early position there are more potential callers, so you need a stronger hand. You also need a stronger hand to call a shove than you do to push.

Technically, 10 is still above the red zone.

<= 1 is the Dead zone, because you'll be blinded in
<=5 is the Red zone, you are in push or fold mode
<= 10 10 is the Orange Zone - very little flexibility
< 20 is the Yellow Zone - you need to be more aggressive
>= 20 is the Green Zone - normal play

Thanks for reply

dasher said:

Technically, 10 is still above the red zone.

<= 1 is the Dead zone, because you'll be blinded in
<=5 is the Red zone, you are in push or fold mode
<= 10 10 is the Orange Zone - very little flexibility
< 20 is the Yellow Zone - you need to be more aggressive
>= 20 is the Green Zone - normal play

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Thanks for reply, good information. I think one gets screwed up when playing the Freerolls and such. But, for me personally, Unless the world makes a drastic change, I will be a low roller forever. lol

Tamerlane said: "even little fish have a place in the sea"

mike

It strictly depends, I have trouble with all-in situations, I'm going with it too often. Im going when (sometimes) I have a high pp's or a strong hand like AKs/o and I'm either on the red or orange zone, as dasher described it. Also, if I'm much ahead and the tournament is moving up slowly ( we are down to 20m ) Im doing my best to eliminate people with weaker hands like 10Jo or such. And the rest - KK, AA I will be paying all-ins every time, with keeping in mind my position - how many people have pushed before me and how many people are to act behind me. If I have any suspicions that in the hand I will have to fight against 4 or more people I'd rather fold. And the other fold situation is on the bubble of a satellite if I'm not ahead.

hffjd2000 said:

I would separate my play from freerolls/play money and real money.
I would be more careful at real money when considering all ins.
Books will tell you (which you mention above) 10xBB and less would you consider moves like all-ins. Its called the "red zone".
Another consideration is the structure (time of blinds), if moving all-in a necessary tactic or not.

Click to expand...

One must separate freerolls/play money from real money. I think the challenge in freerolls/play money is the challenge of, either outwitting other players, try to figure out the poorer players who have on concept of what is a good hand, and can only trap one into getting busted out or losing their chips. lol

Seems, I need to pick up a poker book or two. I have forgotten lots of what I read. And, these replies listed here tell me so.

Good luck on and off the felts,

Mike

dasher said:

Technically, 10 is still above the red zone.

<= 1 is the Dead zone, because you'll be blinded in
<=5 is the Red zone, you are in push or fold mode
<= 10 10 is the Orange Zone - very little flexibility
< 20 is the Yellow Zone - you need to be more aggressive
>= 20 is the Green Zone - normal play

Click to expand...

Thanks for info. Got to get back in the books. I see what you mean now.
As a rule, I try to play the freerolls/play money and small stakes seriously.

Good luck on and off the felts,

mike

hffjd2000 said:

I would separate my play from freerolls/play money and real money.
I would be more careful at real money when considering all ins.
Books will tell you (which you mention above) 10xBB and less would you consider moves like all-ins. Its called the "red zone".
Another consideration is the structure (time of blinds), if moving all-in a necessary tactic or not.

Click to expand...

Poker is a complicated game. Situations change which call for different actions and strategies, depending on of the situation.

good luck on and off the felts,

mike

In general, once you get down around 10bb, you're in shove or fold territory. But up into the 15-20bb range, you should also be looking for opportunities to 3bet shove, preferably vs players who are opening relatively wide and/or likely to be stealing.

Between 10 and 15 BB its time to find an opportunity. At that point your fold equity is minimal.

try to find an opportunity from 20bb.premium hands or good position with marginal hands

it depends a lot, because you need to see with whom are you going to, you need to see if you are in position to do it, and you need to accuratte assumptions about your oponent's hand..

I'd say when you do shove all-in you should do so only with the top 9% or 10% of hands (roughly the same hands you would call a bet with UTG in general). The smaller your stack, however, the less selective you become; with less than 5BB, I'd say going all in with any facecard-rags is acceptable.

And to be safe, try not to call an all-in from another player unless you have AA or AK.....You can usually be looser when initiating an ALL-IN from late position but sticking to the top 10% of hands will probably keep you safe in general.

Of course, it is also preferable to go all-in against a single person rather than against multiple people no matter what your hand is: the more people involved, the greater the chances of a suckout. This is especially the case when you are shortstacked. It's nice to triple and quadruple up but there is increased risk when you do take the plunge into a multi-way pot.

Some of the most respected professionals advocate going all in only once or twice in a tournament. The truth is, when you go all-in, anything can happen so it should be done rarely.

You should be trying to not get down to only 10 blinds and maybe instead of being the one to go allin with a very small stack it might be better to look for chances to move your stack in when you have about 15 or 20 blinds when another player seems to be trying to steal the blinds. It is not always simple to find this kind of spot but when you play alot you will get better at finding those kinds of spots to do it and it can then keep your stack big enough that you do not have to let it get so small that you might need to move allin first.

mange1234 said:

Most times, I make a good read and have the best hand at the time, but when 4th street of the river comes around, things change.

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If you are confident that you made the right play, then you should be ok with either outcome...

...unless the suckouts happen day after day over and over again at which point you :banghead: :eviltongu :bawling: :afraid: :vollkomme uke:

In other words, that's poker.

rifflemao said:

Если вы уверены, что вы сделали правильный игры, то вы должны быть в порядке с любой исход... ...если suckouts происходить изо дня в день, снова и снова, и в этот момент вы :banghead: :eviltongu :bawling: :боится: :vollkomme uke: иными словами, это покер.

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the answer is in the description of smileys is simply excellent))))) Yes in life are different moments,but it poker

You have to consider one crucial thing, you aren't playing alone, so if you go all in and three more guys also call then odds are split in four. You have to be certain that you are going to win the guys that are going to call, and you do that by reading their ways.

Faust said:

You have to consider one crucial thing, you aren't playing alone, so if you go all in and three more guys also call then odds are split in four. You have to be certain that you are going to win the guys that are going to call, and you do that by reading their ways.

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when you go all in you need to ensure that you gonna all in against just one guy, because even if you have AA the odds will decrease, the more players there are in that hand.

I guess you are talking about online play? When I play live, I will jam if I am in LP and want to isolate the offense, but it really depends a lot with whom I am playing, how the table texture is, etc.

I'd like to know after how many blind level are you usually okay with going all in preflop with a monster hand such as AA, KK or even QQ.
It made me lose quite a bit of money by going all in early in tournament and I would like to know if this is bad play or if I've simply not played enough tournaments.