Give me good advice on what to do around the bubble.

The other day I told you I slow played my way into the money, folding pocket aces, etc, because all I needed to do was finish top 250 to win a ticket & I knew I'd get there by not playing any more hand. But the last 3 nights I could have slow played my way into the money easily, having top 10 chip stacks in tournaments that paid 90 people & only being like 104 people left. Or I was in 18th place with 54 people left & it paid the top 45 spots. A similar situation happened a 3rd time...3 nights in a row. All 3 nights I got aggressive and lost and didn't even make the money one time! My thought process was why slow play my way to 3 or 4 bucks when I know I'm good enough to go for the win. There must be a happy medium whereby I can get into the money, yet still play to win. I just CAN'T force my self to fold high pocket pairs right now, even when I'm close to the bubble. I did it that first time, but that was only because it was a ticket, and first place was no different than 250th. Help me get over this problem when it comes to cash games. What's the right move?

Thanks in advance.

it depends on the size of your stack. if you have a big stack you can bully the medium stacks because they dont want to be knocked out before the short stacks. Short stacked, depending on how many people are left and how many BB you have you may be able to fold your way there but sometimes you will have to find a good hand and try to double up. with a medium stack I would just avoid large pots and tough decisions. you still want to accumulate chips even though you are near the money.

There is a huuuuuge difference between playing on the bubble in a satellite (ie, 1st-250th all get the same prize) and a regular tournament with a regular/top heavy payout structure.

In satellites it can be correct to lay down big pairs preflop because the downside of going broke is much higher than the chips you could win. But in a regular tournament those extra chips give you a better chance at making the final table/winning the tournament. You should never be aiming to min cash in regular tournaments.

Think of it this way, say you are in a tournament with a below average stack, a little ways from the bubble. You could probably fold your way into the lowest payout, never playing a single hand. Say you cash for $15 in a $10 tournament this way every time. Or, you could play aggressive and bust out 9 times out of 10. But on that 10th time you'll have accumulated so many chips that you have a great chance at a $500+ win. I'd take that second option every time.

It's not easy to get deep in a tournament, so when you do you have to make the most of it by trying to get as far as you can. If you're settling for minimum cashes, you're probably better off playing double up/double or nothing sit n goes.

Consider reading Winning Poker Tournaments One hand at a time Volume 1.
The section where apestyles shows you how he played a close to bubble part of a big tournament (it's around hand 150 or something like that in the book).
Now this offcourse is a pro playing the bubble in a large buyin, but it should give you an idea of how you should think about bubble-play.

Really good stuff.

When approaching the bubble, you generally can't have you cake and eat it too. The more you ramp up your aggression, the more risk you take of not cashing. OTOH, the more your tighten up, the more you increase your probability of cashing, but with fewer chips to continue with, and thus a decreased chance of going deep.

So IMO, it's a matter of balancing the risk-reward equation. As already noted, one general way is to focus your aggression on mid-stacks. You can fine-tune this advice by emphasizing those players with mid-stacks who you read as either tightening up to cash or as being tight in the first place.

And fairly often, although not always, you can get by with smaller bet sizing, which can reduce the risk element a bit too.

It depends on your personal situation. Does a minimum cash mean much to you? I have been in both positions. At times, especially during a streak of losses and non-cashes, a min cash can do a world of good for a player. Other times, during a normal stretch(up and down, but in general you are playing a good game) a min cash might not mean much to you and trying to chip up against those players tightening up trying to fold into the money is the better strategy.

Hey man don't get down, I literally was the bubble boy 3 huge tournies in a row.

Of course each time I busted I kicked myself in the ass for not at least making it into the money (as two of the three times I busted I was ranked in the top 10...stupid big stacks getting lucky... like AK< AJ because big stack wants to try shiz...)

All the same night. All in a row.

But its all about taking 1st, money means nothing, glory is everything.

Agree with these comments

KoRnholio said:

There is a huuuuuge difference between playing on the bubble in a satellite (ie, 1st-250th all get the same prize) and a regular tournament with a regular/top heavy payout structure.

In satellites it can be correct to lay down big pairs preflop because the downside of going broke is much higher than the chips you could win. But in a regular tournament those extra chips give you a better chance at making the final table/winning the tournament. You should never be aiming to min cash in regular tournaments.

Think of it this way, say you are in a tournament with a below average stack, a little ways from the bubble. You could probably fold your way into the lowest payout, never playing a single hand. Say you cash for $15 in a $10 tournament this way every time. Or, you could play aggressive and bust out 9 times out of 10. But on that 10th time you'll have accumulated so many chips that you have a great chance at a $500+ win. I'd take that second option every time.

It's not easy to get deep in a tournament, so when you do you have to make the most of it by trying to get as far as you can. If you're settling for minimum cashes, you're probably better off playing double up/double or nothing sit n goes.

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I had rather finish in last place than on the bubble. Wally

Advice that I've read from online forums (including this one):

Always play to get in the final table and don't worry about anything else. If you bust on the bubble hard luck, but in the LONG RUN, playing aggressive/normal is the % play and the right play to get you those large cash-outs. Good luck!

I'm just wondering why alot of posters in this thread think that playing tight = mincash? Really? So by your logic, if you play tight nearing the bubble you are just going to mincash and nothing else most of the time? I beg to differ. Playing tight and folding everything are two different things that seem to get confused with eachother alot in this forum.

Maybe it's just me, but I see alot of advice along the lines of "be aggressive and go for the win, playing tight will just get you a mincash and you don't want that", and I think this is just bad advice. ANY cash is a good cash. And if you think that by opening up and getting agro near the bubble will somehow assure you a place at the final table, then... well.... I just don't agree.

Accumilating chips is one thing, but advising somebody who is obviously weak in bubble play to get more aggressive on the bubble is, IMO, not helping that player.

Now, I am by no means advocating a "fold to the money" approach. But I think there is not always a need to open up and play more aggressive near the bubble, just because it is 'common knowledge practice' to do so. Everyone who had read any books or any poker strategy is thinking they need to employ that strategy.

Keep playing the style of game that got you to that point, as it is obviously working for you up until that point. Just keep a couple of things in mind near the bubble. Be cautious of when to put chips in the pot. Have foresight. Your actions do have an impact on what will happen on future streets. Big stacks will want to be the hero, midstacks will want to outlast the shorty's and the shorty's will just want to survive. Pick your spots wisely, but don't go raising against a mid stack with a marginal hand because you're 'supposed to' in that situation.

If you have a top 10 stack, let the riff-raff have their fun knocking eachother out. You do not need to be the hero. Do not go dramatically changing your rythim because you are nearing the pay.

Know what the difference between the bubble and the middle of a tourney is? Not a damn thing.

bullishwwd said:

I had rather finish in last place than on the bubble. Wally

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Finishing in last place and finishing on the bubble are the same thing. They're both finishing out of the money. Just one takes longer to get you nothing.

Yesterday I was the bubble boy in a Pot Limit Hold'em/Omaha mixed tourney (freeroll satellite on Stars). And it all began with a subtle change of mindset. Had a decent stack and somehow decided there is no way I don't make it. There were people hanging on a hair, with 2-3 BB or even less, and I suddenly got involved in pots and lost it (on a bad beat, but still...) and it was such a gut punch, after hours of solid play.

My advice to you (and to myself, grilled fish that I am): don't get cocky, respect the game, play tighter, choose your spots very carefully, let things work out. You have all the time to be aggressive after the bubble.

One thing on bubble play, you need to realize when to make moves, you cant make much of a move with no chips so your best action is to try to get your chips in as good as possible. So what that means to me is I really want to finish in the money rather than not but I don't want to go out without a fight so I will pick a hand that will at least give me a chance of progressing and I will at lease feel better about trying to win and playing it out rather than being forced into a hand I don't want to play. For example I would easily play KJ off or weak Ace in strong position than to wait and let the blinds and antes keep eating my stack and lose anyway.

"It depends" It depends on alot of stuff.... the players on your table, your stack size in relation to the blinds, the stacks of others on your table (ie. are there a bunch of re-steal-sized stacks to your left < affects the range of hands we should be opening with). What our image is (how others on the table perceive us).
You need to make adjustments in your play based on your table. Look for spots (ie. larger stack opponent who's been opening ALOT preflop.. but who also folds to 3bets... or if you figure he's opening way too often... put him to the test). If you have tight players to your left & it's folded to you, try stealing the blinds (personally I think re-steals are more profitable.. 'but'.. 'it depends' on your table).

I think good advice can become bad advice if misapplied. Being more aggressive near the bubble can be good advice unless you are misinterpreting it. I interpret this advice to be more aware of blind stealing opportunities because some of the players will be tightening their calling ranges. Also, as Poker Orifice said, be more aware of re-stealing opportunities against people who interpret "be more aggressive" to mean try to steal the blinds every hand.

I broke the bubble twice yesterday, first online (gained entry to my first Weekly Round 2 on pokerstars, 2000 $ prizepool) in the morning, then live (gained entry into a 3000 $ tourney at my cardroom). The bubble sufferings before were of very good help. So keep playing and be confident.

Until you just get past the hurdle try not to pay attention to when the bubble is, just keep the lobby closed etc. There's a psychological component and a strategy component, you might need to just get past the bubble a bunch of times. But don't fold aces.

I would just focus on trying to keep your chip stack above average throughout the game, once you start making it past the bubble more often you can fine tune your game further.