Getting Worse???

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Muckem

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Hey guys. Having really tough/annoying/frustrating results recently in cash game micro stakes.

The first thing I did when I started playing poker again was to pick up a book Ed Miller getting started in hold em. I read about half of the book first and after a few days of grinding 8+ hours a day I finally was starting to understand the concepts and apply them to my game and saw really nice results. I know it was only a few days but I was even starting to feel I was playing and thinking better. I then went further into the book and even started looking up things online ( hand ranges, player tendincies,) and now I am really just playing worse... making the wrong calls just because I think I know what the guy has in his hands, playing out of position because I am reading the guys hands and think I know what they have and trying to exploit them. Please someone help me. It's so frustrating as I am really trying to learn to be a better poker player.

Am I skipping way to many levels of research? Is hand range reading and player tendincies way to high of a level to even be thinking about right now? If So, is their a specific guideline on what I should be researching first? Thank you in advance.

A lost poker player :)
 
thatguy6793

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One thing you also have to take into account is variance, sometime you just hit a run of bad luck where no matter what hand you have someone has the one hand that will beat it (king high flush losing to ace high flush), so don't let it bother you too much in that regards. Hand reading, in my opinion, is one of the harder skills to master in poker and I think that sometimes when starting out you might read into it a little too much and get the wrong hand ranges in the game and that ends up resulting in big loses. My suggestion is this:

1. Find some hand histories online or from your HUD if your using them. There's some sights that give free hand histories out, pm me and I can give you the link to one site that gives pokerstars hands out for free from low stakes games, and study those. Go through them and try to map out the hand ranges for each player and see how you did at the end. Trust me it's way easier then doing it in game, and if you have a HUD that records your hands you can do your own hand ranges and see how good yours are while studying.

2. Take a step back from studying and go back to only using your fundamentals. Once you mastered them, start adding the complex things back in like hand range reading. Sometimes we move to fast and get caught up in the hardest level we forget how to use the lower levels. Don't be afraid or ashamed of doing the basics for a long time before moving on, because everything else is just routed in our understanding of the basics.

3. Ask questions about your ranges in the hand analysis forums to see if your on the right track. Then you get some experienced players who will give you some tips and tricks about how they read players, what they would have done given a certain range, etc.

Just keep studying and it'll come to you, hope that all helps and best of luck to you!
 
M

Muckem

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One thing you also have to take into account is variance, sometime you just hit a run of bad luck where no matter what hand you have someone has the one hand that will beat it (king high flush losing to ace high flush), so don't let it bother you too much in that regards. Hand reading, in my opinion, is one of the harder skills to master in poker and I think that sometimes when starting out you might read into it a little too much and get the wrong hand ranges in the game and that ends up resulting in big loses. My suggestion is this:

1. Find some hand histories online or from your HUD if your using them. There's some sights that give free hand histories out, pm me and I can give you the link to one site that gives pokerstars hands out for free from low stakes games, and study those. Go through them and try to map out the hand ranges for each player and see how you did at the end. Trust me it's way easier then doing it in game, and if you have a HUD that records your hands you can do your own hand ranges and see how good yours are while studying.

2. Take a step back from studying and go back to only using your fundamentals. Once you mastered them, start adding the complex things back in like hand range reading. Sometimes we move to fast and get caught up in the hardest level we forget how to use the lower levels. Don't be afraid or ashamed of doing the basics for a long time before moving on, because everything else is just routed in our understanding of the basics.

3. Ask questions about your ranges in the hand analysis forums to see if your on the right track. Then you get some experienced players who will give you some tips and tricks about how they read players, what they would have done given a certain range, etc.

Just keep studying and it'll come to you, hope that all helps and best of luck to you!

Thank you for your great response. Really appreciate it. One thing I also noticed that benefited me was not multi tabling. As I can really focus on players and start reading better. I feel like when I Multitable it's a matter of good hands and not good poker. What are your thoughts?
 
thetick33

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ok here is the issue you jumped ahead of the curve and now your lost in the woods

I like you having a basic knowledge of concepts of how to look at the different players yet you got to pay the dues play the hands etc..

note taking is critical is the player lag tag? etc.. what is there level of poker thinking

this is how you find your fish. Also how to see if someone is a shark and you try to avoid without premiums etc..

when i use the process and trust the process and read the player not the cards? I am a very good player. Sometimes after 38 years of playing poker and 14 online I still get lost and get outside of the process and im playing the cards not the players and im losing.

I have used huds 6 weeks in my entire lifetime of poker. Is good for review hand histories etc.. but for someone new to the game I say pay the dues first get 100k hands to see how easily and often you lose. Work on making the right moves at the right times and trust the process if you can figure out the player you will go far or further then if your figuring out ranges or cards.

everyone has weak spots in this game its a constant learning experience.

good things for you try twitch goto betondrew channel sometime think you will like what he is doing and should help you understand your game a little better quicker etc.. with the knowledge coming full circle of the book
 
DougPkrMonsta

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A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing - there is no substitute for experience.

Watch your opponents and take plenty of notes on how they play. If you are using strategies designed to be employed against thinking players, when most of your opponents are sitting there playing their cards, you will not be as successful as you could be.

To me, micro-stakes are more about patience and making value bets that your opponents will not make. Your goal should be to win more on your hands than your opponents would make in the same spots (and lose less with hands where you are behind).

Good luck to you! :D
 
CullinanPoker

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Great questions and great feedback, thanks guys!!!!
 
thatguy6793

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Thank you for your great response. Really appreciate it. One thing I also noticed that benefited me was not multi tabling. As I can really focus on players and start reading better. I feel like when I Multitable it's a matter of good hands and not good poker. What are your thoughts?

Yeah exactly. Multi-tabling is a great way to increase profits and decrease variance but it can be a bit overwhelming at first. What I've seen some books/sites advise and what I completely agree with is start with one table at whatever stakes you play, once you feel comfortable there move up to 2 tables until you either start making a profit or start losing then go to three tables or back to one and so on and so on until you find the right balance between profit and chaos. And it might take some time, just like I said earlier with the hand reading, the jump from one to two tables might be in a few days but the jump from two to three tables could take a few tries. Whatever you do don't rush it and keep your tables aligned with your skills at the time (ie. hand reading, etc). Glad to know my advice actually helped someone on here!
 
A

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Hope it helps!

Hey guys. Having really tough/annoying/frustrating results recently in cash game micro stakes.

The first thing I did when I started playing poker again was to pick up a book Ed Miller getting started in hold em. I read about half of the book first and after a few days of grinding 8+ hours a day I finally was starting to understand the concepts and apply them to my game and saw really nice results. I know it was only a few days but I was even starting to feel I was playing and thinking better. I then went further into the book and even started looking up things online ( hand ranges, player tendincies,) and now I am really just playing worse... making the wrong calls just because I think I know what the guy has in his hands, playing out of position because I am reading the guys hands and think I know what they have and trying to exploit them. Please someone help me. It's so frustrating as I am really trying to learn to be a better poker player.

Am I skipping way to many levels of research? Is hand range reading and player tendincies way to high of a level to even be thinking about right now? If So, is their a specific guideline on what I should be researching first? Thank you in advance.

A lost poker player :)

This is what happens when you try to run way too hard, way too soon. You start feeling exhausted, you start focusing on the wrong parameters. Worse, you feel lost.
I cannot guide you specifically for Cash Game, but what I can do is talk about poker, in general.

1. First understand that poker is a game of chance. You'll win sometimes, you'll lose sometimes.
2. Its good that you're trying to learn, become a better poker player. But know this, it's a tough task. It takes a lot of dedication, study and practice. It will take time.
3. Address one thing at a time, if you're learning ranging, focus on ranging for a while until you become better at it. When you're focusing on tendencies, focus on tendencies (though in my opinion, tendencies and exploitation is a far advanced concept).
4. Take it slow & step-by-step. Once you've understood ranging, your next step should be to learn EV calculation, not jump to some advanced concepts.
5. Finally don't dwell on the outcome, enjoy the process and the results shall come.
 
Amanda A

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One thing jumped out at me that you said "making the wrong calls just because I think I know what the guy has in his hands" It's really hard most of the time to put someone on a particular hand. really hard to know what someone has exactly. Ranges are, well, just that, a range of hands, AX, small medium pairs, suited connectors etc., so maybe you are narrowing opponents range too quickly to one or a few hands. I also personally think that even ranges should be used with caution, you might be off totally off. I like to think there is at least a 15% chance the range I put someone on is totally off, especially against good players who mix up their play. Hope this helps. Best of luck!
 
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Dan Lucas

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I think I have to agree with the comments that you might have tried to advance with knowledge, but not experience. You seem to be on the right track, and multi-tabling can help you focus. experience lets you analyze opponents ranges and tendencies, so you don't get too hung up on assuming you know your opponent's hands. Sometimes, they really do have the hand that beats you. As so many players have said before on this site, try to get good at making the correct decisions. But remember that variance means making the correct decision doesn't result in winning everytime. Just that making the correct decision results in profit over the long run. Good luck to you, however you go.
 
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