Getting Started - Where should I begin?

Hello CardsChat

I've spent the last two weeks or so reading everything I could find on poker strategy and believe I am ready to begin applying some of it. My intention is to play as 'close to free' as possible for a night or two as I work to absorb the information, then stop playing and revisit some of the basics.

I hope to repeat this process until I have obtain some modicum of competence.

I am a bit stumped, however, at where I should begin. Specifically, my questions are:

1. What site would best suit a minnow like myself? Are there freerolls I can participate in initially at most sites or will I need to make a small deposit?

2. If I make a small deposit, am I ruining the 'initial deposit' promotional opportunities should I ever actually elect to pursue this further?

3. It appears that not signing up for a rakeback account is a mistake many people regret. I've also read that, at least on FTP, rakeback accounts and freerolls are mutually exclusive. With the knowledge that I want to see a lot of hands as cheaply as possible while I learn, am I a poor candidate for a rakeback account?

Thanks! I've enjoyed the site very much so far and appreciate all of the sage advice.

Here's the thing....

I read your thread.....great grammer....love smart people ....but all levels of poker can make you feel stupid.....PLAY for FUN...be ready to lose and learn as you play .....the games ,the risks and the players...try to have some fun at first!

I can answer your first question. I don't think you should worry much about which site is suited for beginners much. But before you start on freerolls, there is also two other options. One is a poker trainer (simulation) which some sites have (I know partypoker has one) if you are playing for the first time ever. And there is also the option to play for "play money".

All sites have freerolls, but not all freerolls are worth playing. The large freerolls on the large sites are reallly bad, you will often do battle with 50-100 players per $1 in prize money. Smaller freerolls on smaller sites go down to below 10 players per $1.

So one sugestion if you want to save your deposit and rakeback bonuses is to begin on small sites until you are ready for cash games. Sites like Feltstars, P770, intertops and the abonimable Purple Lounge have great freerolls, plus you can yet live to qualify for the CC freeroll!

Edit: on the major sites, be sure to find your regional freerolls.

Olddog21 said:

PLAY for FUN...be ready to lose and learn as you play .....the games ,the risks and the players...try to have some fun at first!

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Thanks Olddog21, I'll certainly try to have fun. At the moment, it's all fun.

CistaCista said:

One is a poker trainer (simulation) which some sites have (I know PartyPoker has one) if you are playing for the first time ever. And there is also the option to play for "play money".

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Do you feel that the simulations accurately represent play I'll find at early levels?

CistaCista said:

So one sugestion if you want to save your deposit and rakeback bonuses is to begin on small sites until you are ready for cash games. Sites like Feltstars, P770, Intertops and the abonimable Purple Lounge have great freerolls, plus you can yet live to qualify for the CC freeroll!

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That's absolutely perfect. I had not previously entertained the idea of signing up for smaller site, simply out of a lack of trust. It's good to get a recommendation on a few. I'll definitely pursue those sites, thanks CistaCista.

kcjb said:

Do you feel that the simulations accurately represent play I'll find at early levels?

That's absolutely perfect. I had not previously entertained the idea of signing up for smaller site, simply out of a lack of trust. It's good to get a recommendation on a few. I'll definitely pursue those sites, thanks CistaCista.

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Simulations are useful if you have no game experience at all, to get used to the betting options and positions etc.

I myself haven't tried to withdraw money from any sites yet, it could be that some of the sites require a deposit before you can withdraw. But that goes for FullTilt as well.

First thing - figure out if you're actually willing to fund yourself, and if so, for how much. Remember that this doesn't have to be a single amount. It can be, for example, $50 now plus $20 per week.

Note that this doesn't mean you have to use the money. In my case, I bankrolled myself for $150 but never used any of it. I was willing to but won some freeroll money and never had to. Also, various sites offer depositor freerolls that have MUCH better prize pool to number of player ratios than the open ones. So even if you don't intend to play with your money, you can use it to gain access to those tournaments, then withdraw it and deposit it again - back on the same site if you pick one that lets you.

yeah i would stay away from full tilt, you wont be staking enough to get good rakeback and the freerolls are terrible! pokerstars has a good promotion where if you join their poker school thing and do a poker quiz and get like over 60 percent or something (its pretty easy and they give you lessons also which may help you) and then if you deposit 10 dollars they will give you 5 free 3.40 SnG tickets, i did this at the start of the month, joined the pokerschool deposited 10 dollars withdrew the 10 dollars and had my 5 free tickets, cashed in 2 of the SnG's so had around 20 dollars to start playing with. so its worth a pop cause you cant really lose anything. But i agree with the idea of joining some of the smaller sites, if you're from Europe lots of the small i poker network sites have good promotions... but yeah look around for the sites with the best freerolls and stuff also! good luck

Arjonius said:

So even if you don't intend to play with your money, you can use it to gain access to those tournaments, then withdraw it and deposit it again - back on the same site if you pick one that lets you.

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acky100 said:

pokerstars has a good promotion where if you join their poker school thing and do a poker quiz and get like over 60 percent or something (its pretty easy and they give you lessons also which may help you) and then if you deposit 10 dollars they will give you 5 free 3.40 SnG tickets, i did this at the start of the month, joined the pokerschool deposited 10 dollars withdrew the 10 dollars and had my 5 free tickets, cashed in 2 of the SnG's so had around 20 dollars to start playing with. so its worth a pop cause you cant really lose anything.

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Ah, I wasn't aware of the different freeroll tournaments for depositors. That likely defines the next logical step I take after initially working to build a base skill set with these smaller sites. Very helpful information, thank you Arjonius & acky100.

acky100 said:

yeah i would stay away from full tilt, you wont be staking enough to get good rakeback and the freerolls are terrible! pokerstars has a good promotion where if you join their poker school thing and do a poker quiz and get like over 60 percent or something (its pretty easy and they give you lessons also which may help you) and then if you deposit 10 dollars they will give you 5 free 3.40 SnG tickets, i did this at the start of the month, joined the pokerschool deposited 10 dollars withdrew the 10 dollars and had my 5 free tickets, cashed in 2 of the SnG's so had around 20 dollars to start playing with. so its worth a pop cause you cant really lose anything. But i agree with the idea of joining some of the smaller sites, if you're from Europe lots of the small i poker network sites have good promotions... but yeah look around for the sites with the best freerolls and stuff also! good luck

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Are FTP and pokerstars the only play money sites? I am also very new and completely overwhelmed by the choice of sites available!

Olddog21 said:

I read your thread.....great grammer....love smart people ....but all levels of poker can make you feel stupid.....PLAY for FUN...be ready to lose and learn as you play .....the games ,the risks and the players...try to have some fun at first!

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Sorry to be a nit but this I find this post steeped in irony. Also some of the smartest people around have had real problems with grammar. Don't want to sound like a troll its just something that is close to my heart for personal reasons.

Ok well welcome to Cards chat, don't be afraid to ask any questions even you feel silly asking them, people here are very helpfull. You will probally get advice just to make a 50$ deposit or more and learn from that and know chances are you will lose it. This is something I wish that I did instead of playing a years worth of freerolls that personally stunted my poker growth.

That being said if you are going to play freerolls look into things such as regional games and freerolls, in my country Stars has done some nice ones. Some sites have twitter and facebook freerolls etc. Playing thousands of players for 27 paid places is a long hard slog and just not fun after a while. Say you deposited 50$ and played 1$ sngs that would be around 40 games you can get some learning experience and thats if you lost every game which wouldnt happen.

My advice starting out would be to observe each hand even the ones you are not playing and think about what you would do, try and work out other peoples hands from their play. Try to see what hands are doing well for you and what hands are not doing so well. Learn about things such as position, starting hands and things like odds and outs.

Also take it easy on the learning, make sure you understand the concepts above and the reason for them. Its great to learn but its good to add these things to you game a bit at a time so you get comftable with how to play. Why should you play AJ in one position but not in another for example.

Also whatever you do you MUST get rakeback where possible. If you dont your making a huge mistake.

Keep reading CC you can post hands here your unsure of and there is loads of information here.

Good luck sir.

KC... I am assuming you are from the states, Some poker rooms do not allow U.S. players.. so some of the suggestions where to play won't work for you.

The 3 biggest available to U.S. players are Stars. Full Tilt, and Cerus network .

If your able to deposit a small amount please first read on CC some pointers on BRM bankroll Management.

By all means play some freerolls to get a feel for the game

Good Luck and welcome to CC

Mr McCluskey said:

Ok well welcome to Cards chat, don't be afraid to ask any questions even you feel silly asking them, people here are very helpfull. You will probally get advice just to make a 50$ deposit or more and learn from that and know chances are you will lose it. This is something I wish that I did instead of playing a years worth of freerolls that personally stunted my poker growth.

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I appreciate the input Mr McCluskey and am mulling this piece of advice over. I have participated in one freeroll now, which I will describe later, and found that the opening ranges people played with were surprisingly wide. I would imagine that is the nature of any freeroll or play money tournament. Do you see 1$ SnGs as being a better learning experience because the playing styles are more thoughtful?

Mr McCluskey said:

Also whatever you do you MUST get rakeback where possible. If you dont your making a huge mistake.

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the lab man said:

KC... I am assuming you are from the states, Some poker rooms do not allow U.S. players.. so some of the suggestions where to play won't work for you.

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I elected to create a PokerStars account. In case other readers find themselves in my proverbial shoes, let me explain my reasoning.

1. PokerStars allows US-based participants and is large enough to provide me with comfort that my personal information and deposits are safe.
2. PokerStars does not participate in rakeback, which simplifies the discussion.
3. Depositors are given a chance to obtain the full $600 bonus from the sum of their first 3 deposits. If I have read the fine print correctly, that means I can make an initial $50 deposit as advised above without giving up the opportunity to take full advantage of the bonus.

So far I've played just long enough to discern that my wireless router has issues. My connection suffered from constant disconnects with all traceroutes showing clean, consistent, stable hops.

My maiden freeroll voyage ended poorly. My plan was to be very tight with the intention to steal blinds in late position. In reality, the calling ranges were incredibly wide, which made stealing difficult, so I found myself being blinded away.

This evening I hope to begin building the collection of tools that will enhance my ability to analyze my play. I have found and downloaded the 'Universal Replayer', which looks wonderful. I am certain there is a thread in this forum somewhere that speaks to a quality 'starting' set of tools, so my next task is to find it.

Thanks for all of the input and guidance. I am thrilled to have found this community.

kcjb said:

My maiden freeroll voyage ended poorly. My plan was to be very tight with the intention to steal blinds in late position. In reality, the calling ranges were incredibly wide, which made stealing difficult, so I found myself being blinded away.

Thanks for all of the input and guidance. I am thrilled to have found this community.

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No problems and welcome to CC. Some general pieces of advice from myself if I may:

It was great to see that you read up on strategy before hitting the tables and I'd advise you to keep doing this. Get a balance of playing, reviewing your play, studying/reading books and articles and you will quickly learn and refine your technique. Keep reading these forums as you'll find a lot of wisdom from people who were in your position not too long ago.

If you're playing at a very loose tourney then tighten up on the stealing as people just won't respect the raises. Indeed it's often worthwhile not even attempting to steal until the blinds have risen to a meaningful level anyway. That way when you do turn the aggression you'll probably get more respect as someone who really does have a hand (even when you don't).

You'll see this elsewhere but concentrate on making the right plays and don't be too results oriented. If your AA gets sucked out on by some buffoon moving all in 82o then take a deep breath and move on. If you made the right play then focus on that. Over time you'll also get your share of running good also!

Practise good bankroll management. Loads of articles in here about that.

Hope this helps!

Welcome to CC

way to much good advice for me to even bother contributing lol but I will wish you good luck in your new poker voyage

inti

To be honest you are going to get many many donks in the 1$ games but there a few diffrences-

Less players and just one table to play through rather than tables and tables of people that do not care.

You experience the early middle and late games all on one table, and hopefully heads-up too. Is a lot more easy to learn than a 5 million player freeroll where people don't really care.

Playing tight at the beginning is good but 9 man games are a great way to learn to throw some steals in positions etc as the middle and late stages come around.

You will get to experience bubble play when its down to the last knockout before people cash, probally one of the most interesting and important stages of sngs/mtts.

In theory as you improve you game and ability to understand the other players style of playing you will learn who to steal off.

Also even if it is 1$ games I think if you have money at stake on something it will always mean more. Your still going to get a load of donks calling you with crap and but you will at many buy-ins.

As for tools I just bought HEM which is a heads up display but will cost you a bit of money and when you find a game you want to grind depending on what it is there are many tools you can buy to help you going to the poker software forum will help. For you though who seems reluctant to deposit maybe wait untill you feel ready because most tools worth a damn will cost you money. There are some good free ones though like Pokerstove. I think every beginner should think about buying a pokerbook too.

You can sign up for other sites and play freerolls or play money with out depositing. Play tight boring poker until you really get a feel for how people play. Practice at free money tables, or points tables, people play almost as loose at the micro stakes anyway.

I only wished I found this site before depositing on the major sites. Everyone is telling you pretty sound info. I only wish I could still sign up for rack back at FT, I rushed into it and lost a good bit of money. Now after a good bit of time I have learned a good bit and doing decent but never rush into it. You are never as good as you think to begin with. Taking it slow is very smart. I still love to play and this site is better than reading a book. So many diffrent opinions and they all make you think and that is what you really need, or at least that is what helped me.

kcjb;1607261Depositors are given a chance to obtain the full $600 bonus from the sum of their first [B said:

3[/B] deposits. If I have read the fine print correctly, that means I can make an initial $50 deposit as advised above without giving up the opportunity to take full advantage of the bonus.

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Might want to check on this. If I remember correctly what you say is true EXCEPT there is a time limit on those deposits. I think you have 60 days or maybe 90 days to make your first 3 deposits. Then again, it could be as little as 30 days. I really don't remember, but I do remember that there is a time limit to get the bonus for the first 3 deposits. So, if that's your plan, make sure you get all 3 of your deposits in before your time limit expires.

I wouldn't worry too much about chasing sign-up bonuses.
"IF" I were you, I'd initially sign up to PokerStars (I think it's a $50 signup bonus... & they give you ALOT of time to clear it.. & it doesn't take much to do so). (I'd save signing up on Fulltilt til' when you have a bit more experience & are able to take better advantage of their sign-up bonus which is much more difficult to clear... ALSO, on Fulltilt I believe they have some MONSTER 'first time' depositor freerolls (even $100k I think for players from the states?.. not 100% sure about that.. but am pretty sure). You'll want to be half decent before playing that Monster Freeroll as imo it's a great oppurtunity to win a starting bankroll. (wish I had known about it).

Next step > stick to one game.. & one format of that game. Personally I'd suggest starting out with 9plyr. SNG (regular speed.. 'not' turbo). Play that same game over & over.. & over. Search around the internet for decent SNG strategy guides (there are TONS of them). Also, pick up a copy of Phil Gordon's 'Little Green Book' (it's well-written & will help you TONS.. it's also cheap). You might be able to get a copy thru your local library.

Add in some micro tournaments (and again... read up on MTT play). Great place to start is "Harrington On Holdem' Vol.1 & 2 (tournament play)" This will give you a solid foundation.
Mix in those two formats... 'but'.. sticking to mostly the 9plyr. SNG's.

Then sign up to Fultilt... put down $50-100 and play the cheap SNG's on there. Make a move to the 27plyr & 45plyr SNG's as you'll find the fields softer than the 9's & if you get decent you'll also be able to maintain a much higher ROI playing the 27's & 45's then you will in the 9's.
Then > Play the Monster First Depositor Freeroll on Fulltilt.

... read some more.. pick up Collin Moshmann's SNG Strategy... play some more.. read some more.. review your play.... find friends to 'talk poker with'.. read HandHistories posted on poker forums... then do this all again... & again.... & of course.. 'again'.

This ^ would be my choice to go 'IF' I had it to do all over again.

gl

Just a quick question on the Moshman book. Does it cover the larger field, multi-table SNG's of just 9-10man?

I've ignored (unfortunately, probably) part of your advice in the past and currently play cash after dabbling in SNGs, MTTs, PLO8, etc, etc. Seems I'll be alright at ANY game for awhile then I'll get bored, start running bad, tilt-off a couple buy-ins, etc. and start thinking of moving back to another format.

I used to be decent at the small buy-in SNGs, but could never seem to multi-table them successfully. Seems like its much easier to multi-table cash games.

Big_Rudy said:

Just a quick question on the Moshman book. Does it cover the larger field, multi-table SNG's of just 9-10man?

I've ignored (unfortunately, probably) part of your advice in the past and currently play cash after dabbling in SNGs, MTTs, PLO8, etc, etc. Seems I'll be alright at ANY game for awhile then I'll get bored, start running bad, tilt-off a couple buy-ins, etc. and start thinking of moving back to another format.

I used to be decent at the small buy-in SNGs, but could never seem to multi-table them successfully. Seems like its much easier to multi-table cash games.

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Moshmann's book just covers single table SNG's although some of the lessons in there would work just as well for 18 or maybe 27 mans also IMO. I have the same experience as you in terms of multi tabling SNG's - still working at mastering it though.

Big_Rudy said:

Just a quick question on the Moshman book. Does it cover the larger field, multi-table SNG's of just 9-10man?

I've ignored (unfortunately, probably) part of your advice in the past and currently play cash after dabbling in SNGs, MTTs, PLO8, etc, etc. Seems I'll be alright at ANY game for awhile then I'll get bored, start running bad, tilt-off a couple buy-ins, etc. and start thinking of moving back to another format.

I used to be decent at the small buy-in SNGs, but could never seem to multi-table them successfully. Seems like its much easier to multi-table cash games.

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yah, just single table tournaments (STT/SNG). For playing the 27's you just have to make necessary adjustments when tables get shorthanded (in time you'll get used to it). Same with 18's although we're obviously only going to get shorthanded once before final table.

Fantastic, thanks PO. I am currently reading the Harrington series but have not yet picked up Gordon's book. I'll do that next.

This probably doesn't answer your original post too well, but you still may find this thread useful: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/lea...your-specialty-cash-games-tournaments-186533/

There's been a lot of good advice in this thread so far, and I can tell you have an excellent attitude thus far towards learning the game kcjb.

One thing that strikes me is that you may be doing a bit too much studying, and not enough experiencing. It's very good you are learning the ins and outs of where to sign up and how to take advantage of bonuses and promotions. This is one of the things I think people who rush in and didn't research regret.

However, in regards to actual playing strategy, I think it's important to strike a balance between time on the tables and time learning/theorizing. One of the greatest teachers can be your own experience -- and accruing many situations and hand histories from which you can draw upon with firsthand insight is important to any poker player. Playing a ton also will help you figure out what type of games and formats you enjoy most.

For this reason, I think playmoney is a very good way to get started with getting some hand experience and testing the waters of different formats (cash, 6-max/FR, SNG, MTT, etc.). Playmoney is an excellent risk-free way to get some hand experience and to just work on some basic reading skills. The level of play at the lowest rungs of playmoney is generally ridiculous, but if you can build a playmoney roll you will start to see more competent players at the upper echelons of the playmoney tiers. You will sometimes even find better play at the tops of the playmoney tiers than you will at the lowest rungs in real money, depending on the site. Some will say that play money is too unrealistic and will teach you bad habits -- this is probably somewhat true. The thing to practice is to be able to read and classify your opponents, and to be able to adapt your game according to the situation -- there are a lot of terrible playmoney players, and also some really good ones too. The same thing is true in real money, and you need to be able to discern the differences more quickly in real money.

Also, realize that NL Hold 'Em is super popular right now, but there are many other forms of poker that could be equally or more enjoyable to you and that you may be able to capitalize on even better.