General question about allin

CistaCista

CistaCista

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Total posts
533
Chips
0
When I go allin i do it because I expect i have the best hand. And most often I do have the best hand, because if I feel I don't have the best I will lay down my hand.

(The obvious exceptions are going allin preflop with KK and with AK and meeting a better hand, that is just the realities of poker.)

But apart from those, and going allin on later streets, I have the best hand in 3 out of 4 hands, maybe even 4 out of 5 hands.

HERE*S THE QUESTION
- Should I be happy about that - that I can read the opponent and situation well and save my money?
- Or should I take more chances, get my money in there much more, until I have the best hand only in 3 out of 5 cases maybe?
 
Olddog21

Olddog21

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Total posts
416
Chips
0
The percentages look great ...but are you winning because there are no callers ..or are you doubling your chip stack each time...the goal is to maximize your chip count not win alot of small hands. Could you have gotten any more players to stay in longer before you pushed all-in. Other than that 4 out of 5 is a great read on your oppenents! GL.in your games! :party:
 
danprince10

danprince10

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Total posts
724
Chips
0
Great percentage for going all in when you're ahead, but you shouldn't never use going all in as a way of bluffing or semi bluffing. You shouldn't limit yourself like that.
 
R

Rasilez

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
May 10, 2011
Total posts
4
Chips
0
If u feel that u have the best hand, maybe can raise without all in just for get more chips
 
CistaCista

CistaCista

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Total posts
533
Chips
0
The percentages look great ...but are you winning because there are no callers ..
Ah, I didn't expalin myself well.

I mean in situations where there is a race (or showdown), so that one of the parties have gone allin, and tehe cards are laid on the table.

In those cases I have the best hand in 4 out of 5 times, and I am asking if I should maybe be more daring with going allin. There are probably some situations where I have folded the best hand.
 
H

HipHopStoner

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Total posts
381
Chips
0
In early stages of MTTs I try to get my money in against the donks being ahead.. after the mid- early late stages all ins are almost not worth the risk depending on your stack... no reason to shove deep and lose to a bigger stack.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,596
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
Ah, I didn't expalin myself well.

I mean in situations where there is a race (or showdown), so that one of the parties have gone allin, and tehe cards are laid on the table.

In those cases I have the best hand in 4 out of 5 times, and I am asking if I should maybe be more daring with going allin. There are probably some situations where I have folded the best hand.
It's very difficult to answer your question as it is far too general. We have an advantage when we're re-raising allin.. it is called 'fold equity' (something we need to calculate into the equation when wondering if a shove is +EV). Open-shoving, calling a shove & being allin, or re-raising allin over a raise with fold equity, re-raising allin w/o fold equity are all way different situations.
So... without giving the exact scenario of when you're allin vs. another player it's impossible to say whether or not you should be getting it in more often.. 'although'.. if you're not getting it in bad (in MTT's) you're likely not getting it in enough (sounds kinda dumb but actually it isn't... obviously not your goal but perhaps helps you to envision that you might need to get it in more often).
Situations (stack sizes, position, player reads, stack sizes in relation to the blinds, our image, etc. etc.) will all be relative to whether or not we need to be getting it in.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,596
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
P.S. I don't always shove because I figure I'm going to have the best hand going into the situation.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,596
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
In early stages of MTTs I try to get my money in against the donks being ahead.. after the mid- early late stages all ins are almost not worth the risk depending on your stack... no reason to shove deep and lose to a bigger stack.
Question: When aren't we deep in early levels? (I'm confused)
 
S

scottieb668

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Total posts
102
Chips
0
i think it is better to stay away from all inns preflop ... I think monster pairs are only way.....
 
mrmonkey

mrmonkey

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Total posts
680
Chips
0
When I go allin i do it because I expect i have the best hand. And most often I do have the best hand, because if I feel I don't have the best I will lay down my hand.

(The obvious exceptions are going allin preflop with KK and with AK and meeting a better hand, that is just the realities of poker.)

But apart from those, and going allin on later streets, I have the best hand in 3 out of 4 hands, maybe even 4 out of 5 hands.

HERE*S THE QUESTION
- Should I be happy about that - that I can read the opponent and situation well and save my money?
- Or should I take more chances, get my money in there much more, until I have the best hand only in 3 out of 5 cases maybe?

Cista, you should definitely be happy that in most situations you are getting your chips in ahead. If it were the other way around, you'd have some serious issues to work on in your game.

IMO, if you are still grinding at 2nl then it is not worth trying to get the majority of opponents off hands. In general, most 2nl villains are not really thinking about what you are holding -- they are just playing the cards in front of them.

Have you downloaded PT3/HEM yet? When you have stats on your opponents, or if you are playing limited tables and have a very strong sense of what type of player they are with detailed notes, you can then begin to figure out which are the stronger, thinking players and the nits which you can then leveraging your image and power to make your opponent fold. Generally, to make an opponent fold, you want to have a hand which has no showdown value but which you played in a way that your opponent thinks he is beat. To be able to do this, your opponent needs to be at least considering what cards might be in your hand (level two thinking).

While there are some level two thinkers at 2nl, most unknown villains are simply playing their cards -- and against these types it is usually best to just play your strong hands fast and furious and get called down by inferior holdings.

But do look for these spots and stronger players that know how to fold, and when you find yourself in a heads up situation with one of them and a spot where you think you know what they have and that they probably won't call you if you show strength, try to take down the pot. It doesn't usually require an all-in to do so either -- it's dependent on stack sizes and pot size and board texture and villain and etc.

Also, post some hands here for analysis and you'll likely get some insight.
 
A

Aldito

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 28, 2010
Total posts
1,246
Chips
0
i think it is better to stay away from all inns preflop ... I think monster pairs are only way.....

Yeah, best stay away from anywhere that serves alchohol until at least post flop.
 
Ballack

Ballack

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Total posts
81
Chips
0
You just should go ALL-in in late phase of a tourney or sng. It's a Push or Fold situation. Believe in ur hand and ship it or fold it. It's a better manner to reduce the times of going all-in.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,596
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
OP, I assumed you were referring to Tournament play here? Am I wrong? If so, disregard my prior responses.
 
dmorris68

dmorris68

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
May 27, 2008
Total posts
6,788
Awards
2
Chips
0
As PO said, there are a variety of shove scenarios to consider. Not all shoves should mean you have the best hand -- there are certainly spots where you should be restealing by shoving with air or a semi-bluff. Again, as PO mentions, fold equity is a big factor in these moves, and you generally have much more fold equity in a tournament situation than in a cash game. That said, in games at the lowest micro stakes, fold equity is often not considered or respected, so it's generally advised to nit it up and play your premium hands unless you have a read that you're up against a thinking player.
 
O

only_bridge

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 3, 2009
Total posts
1,805
Chips
0
To call an all-in: Depends on pot odds. If its cheap to call compared to the total pot you dont have to be right very often for it to be profitable.
To push all-in: Depends on fold equity and showdown equity. You can push with nothing if it gets your opponent to fold a better hand.
 
K

KidVicious

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 16, 2011
Total posts
23
Chips
0
Ah, I didn't expalin myself well.

I mean in situations where there is a race (or showdown), so that one of the parties have gone allin, and tehe cards are laid on the table.

In those cases I have the best hand in 4 out of 5 times, and I am asking if I should maybe be more daring with going allin. There are probably some situations where I have folded the best hand.

Are we talking tourneys or cash? Shove your big draws when you have a decent amount of fold equity.
 
CistaCista

CistaCista

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Total posts
533
Chips
0
OP, I assumed you were referring to Tournament play here? Am I wrong? If so, disregard my prior responses.
Sorry, actually I am playing 2NL as you can see some of the guys knew already.

I'd be happy to hear your advice directed at micros. As it is, I feel I may be doing too many laydowns with good hands.

I am not yet familiar with thinking about fold equity.
But as someone else remarked, noone at 2NL is familiar with that, and few even think of opponent's hand much, and therefore that must be kept in mind also?
 
P

paumarhas

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Total posts
682
Chips
0
i think allins are widely overused. you are always taking risks to begin with and to throw the allin move in there just increases the risks.
:trytofly: :call:
 
Sven Deuceman

Sven Deuceman

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Total posts
159
Chips
0
i think allins are widely overused. you are always taking risks to begin with and to throw the allin move in there just increases the risks.
:trytofly: :call:

i have to agree it is a terribly silly risk to take in some spots. again it is very situational based on tons of factors, table image , actions before, position in tourney etc.. i tend to not shove as much as i see other players doing and tend to get paid off more. in the micros especially if you don't shove with an ace on board and say ak in the hole you can often get called for the whole pot at least once. shoving on the same board would get you the smaller pot.but once again it is situational and even one killer bluff if your image is tight enough. i'm big on pot control , trapping and avoiding coin flips.
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
If you have the best hand when the cards are flipped in an all-in 3 out of 4 or 4 out of 5 times, you are not going all-in enough.
 
CistaCista

CistaCista

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Total posts
533
Chips
0
If you have the best hand when the cards are flipped in an all-in 3 out of 4 or 4 out of 5 times, you are not going all-in enough.
Ah, now there's an opinion straight from the heart. Thank you sir.
 
Top