Are freerolls really an indicator of success?

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Jabres

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I recently started getting into online poker again. I used to play a lot in college (5 years ago) both online and live. I was fairly successfull live and mildly successful online. Online eventually destroyed all my bankroll.

Well I'm getting back into things again and stumbled upon this place. I saw a post here saying that before getting into cash games you should grind out the freerolls for a week or so.

Finally to my question, are freerolls really an indicator of success? Or is it really just luck considering the talent involved in such low levels of play?

I'm asking because I grinded out and got into the money (top10 in the money, placed 9th) on a free roll. It's the on demand kind. 400+ participants.

Does this mean I'm ready to play now?

TL;DR Tried out the freerolls for practice. Got in the money. What does this say about my skill level?
 
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UncleConRon

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My opinion

I think your ready. If you think about it they are slowly going to catch up to you. You will blow your chance. No one ever knew of Phil Helmoth. He took a chance against his fathers wishes. Left home and won the world series of poker. This was before the internet poker.
 
paulinhlt

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I will relate what happened to me.
I started in freerolls, and then started playing sng 0:25 ... and I was succeeding in both ...

the freeroll is a little trash, but rather to the vc profit to play seriously. Play conservative at first, that u come away ... study and apply their knowledge.
The freeroll not really measures your skill, but you of a great vision of how to play in various situations, regardless of whether the player is pro or donkey;
 
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Jabres

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I will relate what happened to me.
I started in freerolls, and then started playing sng 0:25 ... and I was succeeding in both ...

the freeroll is a little trash, but rather to the vc profit to play seriously. Play conservative at first, that u come away ... study and apply their knowledge.
The freeroll not really measures your skill, but you of a great vision of how to play in various situations, regardless of whether the player is pro or donkey;

This is why I posed the question. I know the players are mostly garbage, and this is why I'm having trouble coping with my 'success'.

Since this post, I've dabbled in some cash games and tourneys. I tweaked my game a bit beforehand, but still got wrecked. I know that long term I would probably have been pretty successful with the right bankroll, but that's a little pricey for my blood.

Since then, I've done a lot of reading and tightened my game up by about %1000. So I definitely agree with the conservative aspect.
 
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I'm playing a lot of freerolls lately because of a back injury and i don't want to spend too much money on poker, but I think there's a big difference when you join a freeroll or cash game. Especially in the beginning, you are not playing poker, but it looks more like lotto or something like that. Players just go all-in with nothing in their hands and often wins with it. It's only when the garbage players are confrontated with the "real" poker players, you will see the difference. When you are playing with real money, players tend to play more calculated and it has more the feeling of playing poker, rather than playing with the lotto. But hey, that's just my opinion. Still, you have to have some bit of luck playing poker :)
 
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92Hawaiian

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Freeroll say more about perseverance than about the genius of the game, in my opinion, even though they are two very fine line. I very rarely lucky table for 9 people, all go to Allin and "Mamma Mia":(
 
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leandr0s

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even if you win the main event it doesnt mean you are a great player. those large fields demand huge luck. and when it comes to freerolls luck is 99.999% to get in that position. Thats because in freerolls players dont care about the tournament and so they get all their chips in the middle with all kinds of cards. so even if you go all in all the time with 70-30 you need huge luck to win all those races and finish within the tops. on normal tournaments luck also matters but then in early and middle stages at least the majority of hands are won without a showdown-> not much luck involved
 
ginos biker chick

ginos biker chick

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I have always done better at real money

free roll games seem to make me have more leaks due to all the chasers. the only time I play free rolls is when i just want to have fun not take it seriouse.
 
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haystack

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well the free rolls are a good test of your knowledge of playing and a good test because the play is all over the place.
 
IntenseHeat

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I do think that success in freerolls can be an indication of skill to a certain degree. What you have to understand is that you are going to be faced with several varieties of player. Some will be outright bad. Others may be decent players, but may not put their full effort into the game because it is just a freeroll. But some players will play them with full focus and effort, regardless of that fact that "it's just a freeroll".

I used to be the last kind of player because, for one, I was attempting to build a bankroll without depositing, and two, because I've always felt that playing less than your best game can cause you to develop bad habits. If get into the habit of making loose calls or chasing weak draws "because it's only a freeroll", you might find yourself kicking yourself in the ass for making the same kind of play at a crucial juncture of a buy in tournament, then wondering what the heck you were thinking when you should know better than to call your whole stack off on a draw. That's the reason I don't play freerolls anymore. Once I had managed to build up a decent sized bankroll, I found that I couldn't get myself to focus enough to play my best game in a freeroll.

Here's the thing, though, if you can manage to play your best game regardless of how other people are playing, you will find yourself constantly and repeatedly making deep runs. When you start making deep runs on a regular basis, you'll start to notice a list of usual suspects that always seem to make it deep. Why do you suppose that is?
 
veronica

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I personally would say qty freerolls you used to see things you do not have to do , being a free tournament many recreational players are recorded regardless of the way you play , because the entry does not cost them money, it is more than safe in these tournaments you will spot a very bad level of play ... it serves and not both .
 
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joe777

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Its depends,if its one of the super turbo/hyper format,i would say no,but in the regular one,you could find some quality play in the middle or late phase.
 
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It's like driving a car, you never really forget. It's just a matter of getting the ball rolling again.
 
Olgert1992

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It is not , as for me it is a lottery. For success with them elementary abilities are needed. If you win in them, it does not mean, that on large limits you will score a success. I consider that freerolls it all destroy such concept as poker. Many think and play beforehand not right in future.
 
SteelyDanFan

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Freeroll MTT strategy

The first 4-5 levels in freerolls MTTs is some of the worst poker you will EVER see, as typically there's at least one player at the table who is shoving preflop with any two cards or massively overbetting the pot after the flop. By the time you get to level 10 or 12, 90% of those maniacs have busted out and there's very few preflop roulette players left in the field. That's when you can actually work on your game, get reads on opponents and try some bluffing strategies.

Good luck at the tables!
 
AtiFCOD

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I recently started getting into online poker again. I used to play a lot in college (5 years ago) both online and live. I was fairly successfull live and mildly successful online. Online eventually destroyed all my bankroll.

Well I'm getting back into things again and stumbled upon this place. I saw a post here saying that before getting into cash games you should grind out the freerolls for a week or so.

Finally to my question, are freerolls really an indicator of success? Or is it really just luck considering the talent involved in such low levels of play?

I'm asking because I grinded out and got into the money (top10 in the money, placed 9th) on a freeroll. It's the on demand kind. 400+ participants.

Does this mean I'm ready to play now?

TL;DR Tried out the freerolls for practice. Got in the money. What does this say about my skill level?

The freerolls now have much more stronger field than 5 years ago. So if you can be successful in frees nowadays, you can start playing in low buyin regular tourneys IMO. Of course with srict bankroll management.
 
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Dysmania

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I'm in the same boat as you. At first it feel weird playing for real money. Since you really don't want to lose. Your game is likely to feel weird and overly uptight. Then when you realize your uptight, you play loose then lose.

I think after a few games where you act confident and decisive is when you will start to shine. I started on freeroll did realtively wel.. Then .25 45-90 man. I'd cash a few times. Then I went to .50 since it was turbo and I didn't have the time for non-turbo. And required less focus. Since your new, you might realize liek I did, thatr after 3 hours of play. I would make one single big error. Cost me a lot of rank. So I've been doing good in Turbo. Won my first 45 man in 1st Yesturday! :)

I think it comes down to being confident with money. It's weird sometimes, it's only .25 cents or .45 cents, but still feels so different to free-rolls. You gotta get used to it and don't get stuck thinking that. Don't get stuck thinking about your thinking. You just really have tto gain confidence and play as you would always play. I find very simple strategies work versus .50 SnGs. I tend to enjoy letting others make mistakes then me makign big ones.

NO better way to gain this confidence then to play them. Only that will get you ready for that kind of play.
 
Bogdan Pyts

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if you want to gain experience you can not play in the freerolls, and even more so for the sake of success
 
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igor vanillasky

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tottaly agree with Sall. freerolls are not the same as real money tournaments. Freeroll players easy goes all in , even they don't have nh.
 
Mase31683

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It says you did better than about 390 people playing a freeroll.

I'd be more concerned with your statement of being "mildly successful online" which destroyed your bankroll...

If you lost your roll there's some fundamental issues which need to be resolved somewhere in your game. Keep working on it, post in the forums, and just continue to try and improve.
 
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Jabres

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It says you did better than about 390 people playing a freeroll.

I'd be more concerned with your statement of being "mildly successful online" which destroyed your bankroll...

If you lost your roll there's some fundamental issues which need to be resolved somewhere in your game. Keep working on it, post in the forums, and just continue to try and improve.

Yes, and that was years ago. Back then I wasn't even aware of the intense amount of information that is available on the game. Much less wary of how important bankroll was. I learned that lesson a little too late, but I learned it.
 
GODZZ

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I've played a lot of Free-rolls this Yr.Building small rolls. I keep ending up back in the Free-rolls due to my lack of BR discipline , I tend to play what looks good BR be dammed lol . This is probably why I'm always building.

I play the 10.00 OD FR's. They are a crap shoot in the beginning , sometimes I get in them just to blow off steam and shove over and over.
But if you play it right and take advantage of the radical play, you can Dbl and Trpl up early . After a few levels the play really does improve and you can play somewhat normal poker.

I haven't been playing them too much lately , I've been playing the Free-buy's into the Mill. I won a seat to the game on Oct.4th but went nowhere , then bubbled 1 on BCP for the next Mill.( soo pissed ). When I was playing the 10.00 OD FR's , if I focused I did pretty well. I've won 4-5 , I cashed a bunch of times and I was at the top of the leader board once . The only effect playing these has had on my game , IMO Is that I get a lil impatient and tend to chase a bit more lol. Good Luck out there.
 
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hffjd2000

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Of course not.

Freerolls are different from real money.

You must have lot of luck at freeroll to go deep since entrants are huge.

For real money, must possess many strategy skills aside from luck to go deep.
 
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Doh123

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For me it was a cold shower when was moving from freerolls to real games. It think it's a general experience. You must be sure how you make decisions, you must be sure you are doing good in longrun, because there isn't something like: "I'll just win a some and then, we will see....". Nope, you don't even get into that point of winning some. You must know what you are doing for sure. No false hopes.
 
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Jabres

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For me it was a cold shower when was moving from freerolls to real games. It think it's a general experience. You must be sure how you make decisions, you must be sure you are doing good in longrun, because there isn't something like: "I'll just win a some and then, we will see....". Nope, you don't even get into that point of winning some. You must know what you are doing for sure. No false hopes.

Yeah, agreed. I've been getting more into the math side of the house here recently. It's a beast of a world, but damn if it hasn't improved my game by leaps and bounds. I've put myself on a cash diet here recently and have played only freerolls for fun in between reading and studying.

Which leads me to believe that I can conclusively answer this question myself:

No, freerolls are nearly impossible to use as a benchmark for success.

The players are wild and crazy. I once sat at a table that was just a series of successive all-ins. While I can get this happening as a result of standard deviation, these guys were going all in on Q7o, and shit like that. It is insane and in my opinion you can be consistently successful there with strategy, but you'd have to be such a nit that it couldn't possibly translate to real world success in any other place than maybe microstakes.
 
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