folding AK, AQ preflop (LOL?)

blikbleek · Sep 5, 2011

ok so.....
is there ANY situation where AK,AQ should be folded preflop against an all in.

i can imagine in a full game where 4 or 5 people are all in pre (very unusual), might be a decent fold there.

my question is really about heads up tho. is there ANY instance where i should be folding that hand in an all in preflop situation?

baudib1 · Sep 5, 2011

when you don't have equity and pot odds to continue vs. someone's shoving range, you should fold.

blikbleek · Sep 5, 2011

baudib1 said:
when you don't have equity and pot odds to continue vs. someone's shoving range, you should fold.

can you give me an example. i really need to learn this, it would be appreciated.

KerouacsDog · Sep 5, 2011

I find very easy folds with AQ, if you have action in front of you, what do you beat? Not much, maybe AJ/AT/KQ etc, but most of the time in a coinflip you're behind.(Thats for 6max/9max, not HU)

RamdeeBen · Sep 5, 2011

fullring, A,Q never calling all in if blinds are still low unless I have a read knowing a player is shoving any Ace for example and in general I have him crushed. A,K I'd consider folding early in a tournament, again player dependant. If for example, someone hadn't played a single hand in 20, I'd fold A,K, if someone played 50% of hands, I'd snap call.

Headsup, I'm calling A,K all in close to every time, it would have to be a very specific reason or whatever it may be why I wouldn't call, not sure if I've ever folded to be honest.

A lot of the factors though depends on who you're playing and what current pace the tournament is at. A,Q is a little different, I'd fold to a 3bet/4betshove unless I know I have equity against his range of hands, again it's so hard to say. A lot will quite happily shove A,9+ so obviously I'm calling these people.

In general though, like I said earlier, A,K/A,Q AIPF is +EV

jbbb · Sep 5, 2011

eg. 9 man STT with 4 people left. 150/300 blinds.
UTG: 300 chips
BTN: 1,500 chips
SB: 5,000 chips
BB (hero): 3,700 chips

SB shoves all-in you can fold everything except KK or AA here aparently, although i'd probably call with QQ.

Tom1559 · Sep 5, 2011

AQ is an easy fold if you have got action in front of you or if someone behind you re-raises. AK is harder to fold. The dynamics of the game have to be taken into account in any decision and any call or fold should be based on the odds and your read of the opponents. Like all things in poker there is no right or wrong answer.

baudib1 · Sep 5, 2011

blikbleek said:
can you give me an example. i really need to learn this, it would be appreciated.

blinds are 10/20 stacks are 1,500 you raise with AQo to 40, he shoves for 1,500, you estimate his range at QQ+/AK.

call is 1,460 to win 1,540 and we only have 24.4% equity so we fold.

jbbb · Sep 5, 2011

baudib1 said:
blinds are 10/20 stacks are 1,500 you raise with AQo to 40, he shoves for 1,500, you estimate his range at QQ+/AK.

call is 1,460 to win 1,540 and we only have 24.4% equity so we fold.

or a bit more extereme:
in a 9 man STT blinds are 10/20 stacks are 1,500 you raise with AQs to 40, he shoves for 1,500, you estimate his range at 22-TT.

call is 1,460 to win 1,540 and we have 47% equity but we still have to fold.

baudib1 · Sep 5, 2011

Probably not helpful to encourage OP to put people on a single hand.

jbbb · Sep 5, 2011

baudib1 said:
Probably not helpful to encourage OP to put people on a single hand.

fine, edited, although it wasn't really relevant to the point I was trying to make.

alternate · Sep 7, 2011

blikbleek said:
ok so.....

my question is really about heads up tho. is there ANY instance where i should be folding that hand in an all in preflop situation?

AK is the nuts HU,so never fold
AQ is basically opponent dependent (mostly a snap call or all in with a shallower stack)

ferratus · Sep 7, 2011

I have been playing every day now for almost a year. This is both online and live. ( when work allows me to ). With that being said I understand that my poker work needs well .. work . Now , I find it very easy to fold both AQ and AK pre flop for several different reasons and while I hate to do it I have NO problems doing it.
A lot of the various reasons have been mentioned previously but I believe there is no shame in holding out if your in a position where you do not feel comfortable in playing a hand. One thing I do NOT like is a coin flip. I will be honest. For some reason it seems I am always on the loosing end of it.

baudib1 · Sep 7, 2011

If you don't like calling when you have 45-50% equity with dead money maybe poker isn't for you.

JamesDaBear · Sep 7, 2011

When people stop playing AQ- and QQ- the way they do, I'll stop playing AK the way I do. When people stop playing AJ- and JJ- the way they do, I'll stop playing AQ the way I do.

RamdeeBen · Sep 7, 2011

ferratus said:
I have been playing every day now for almost a year. This is both online and live. ( when work allows me to ). With that being said I understand that my poker work needs well .. work . Now , I find it very easy to fold both AQ and AK pre flop for several different reasons and while I hate to do it I have NO problems doing it.
A lot of the various reasons have been mentioned previously but I believe there is no shame in holding out if your in a position where you do not feel comfortable in playing a hand. One thing I do NOT like is a coin flip. I will be honest. For some reason it seems I am always on the loosing end of it.

In MTT's I'm unsure of how this can ever be a good move, sure in certain spots where you think you're behind, folding A,Q is fine. As for folding A,K, flipping vs an under pair is standard in MTT and needs to be done to get further. Most of the time, you will be dominating and people are quite willing to shove A,10+

baudib1 · Sep 7, 2011

ferratus said:
Here is just one example for me. Remember I do not like coin flips. Why because it always seems ( or would appear to ) that I come out on the loosing end.

Freeroll yesterday I sit and sit and sit and watch... I see 2-3 people go all in and I was sitting in late pos with AQ off.

2 people had pp one of which was KK. The other was low pp as in 44 or 55. The 3rd person had AK off.

As per usual the flop comes down 4JJ 9 K. End of story.. felt good about throwing them down.

2nd example and THIS is why I will muck them if I do not like what I am seeing.

AK off preflop I am middle stack in middle pos everyone has folded to me. I shove all in . This other guy in late pos has been playing every hand and I DO mean every hand and as expected he shoves all in pre with a 95 off.

Flop comes down and its a complete and utter miss for me and yep you guessed it.. the donk hits his 9 AND his 5..

For me I would rather raise pre flop prior to entering to committing to hand and not be able to pull back. I would rather chip away slowly and then put someone on a big hand and dry them up.

Do not get me wrong. I will still push with AK or AQ I would say 60 percent of the time and that fluctuates back and forth depending on the table, players and amount involved. Thats just me. Maybe that will change in time who knows..

cool story imo, bro

baudib1 · Sep 7, 2011

eqgh5uea said:
AK is a bad starting hand.

I have about a 20% win rate with AK.

also cool story, bro

Roller · Sep 7, 2011

blikbleek said:
ok so.....
Is there ANY situation where AK,AQ should be folded preflop against an all in.
Is there ANY instance where i should be folding that hand in an all in preflop situation?

AK - Flip for the Win.
Situational dependent
Ask yourself - AK is ahead of what % of my opponents range in this situation?
Most often it's an insta call.

AQ - Flip if your lucky
Opponent Dependent
Ask yourself - AQ is ahead of what % of my opponents All in PreFlop range?

Calling an All in

Stack Depth - Situational - Player Dependent
Shoving

baudib1 · Sep 8, 2011

Results-oriented people ITT.

Nathan Williams · Sep 13, 2011

Heads up I don't think I would ever fold either of those hands. Maybe with AQo and its 500bb deep.

WVHillbilly · Sep 13, 2011

baudib1 said:
Results-oriented people ITT.

Not nearly as many as there were a few seconds ago.

buster999 · Sep 13, 2011

WVHillbilly said:
Not nearly as many as there were a few seconds ago.

Why did you delete my post? That was a good example I had for OPs post.

ferratus · Sep 13, 2011

Same here ..maybe the photos were too much

WVHillbilly · Sep 13, 2011

Both of you just posted Bad Beats. There is a whole forum dedicated to that crap. Take it there.

folding AK, AQ preflop (LOL?)

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