flush draw

so heres the situation, you have been dealt king and 8 of hearts. Flop brings 2 more hearts but you have no pair. 2 other players still in after flop. both check around, it is your turn to bet-how do you play it? I know your chances of making that flush are about1/3. how would you play this?

check, mini-raise.

Depends how you played the hand before the flop. There are 2ways from my point of view, either check if he raise than you re-raise, or just simple check/call

In general, without any known information preflop, if action goes check-check to you, I would bet. You can still take down the pot right then (which is better than to draw, but you do have the equity to put money in for the draw).

I don't like to play not completed hands aggressively. I would check as well. And if the players checked for the second time on the turn I would bet whether I got the flush or I didn't to prevent the next card to appear for free.

IcyNicy said:

I don't like to play not completed hands aggressively. I would check as well. And if the players checked for the second time on the turn I would bet whether I got the flush or I didn't to prevent the next card to appear for free.

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It is appropriate to also bet the flop because you can 1) potentially take it down with your equity as you draw to another card if they call - this also gives you information based on their call/fold decision. 2) betting the flop in position gives you an opportunity to take down the pot right then.

if you check the flop, they might take the right to bet in the turn. so would you still bet/raise the turn...? or call/fold..?

Hhm. These days I am able to play only freerolls. The game there you know isn't perfect. I mean at all) To bet on the flop I think is quite good, and your arguments are quite convincible. But it seems that I just got used too much to calling stations who will call whatever and whenever they have. Anyway thx for a good advise.

If you want to build the pot then you would bet up to half the pot but if you want to keep the pot small and see if you actually hit your flush then I would just check and get the free card. Then if you hit your flush on the turn you have act accordingly to how the player plays. for example if he/she is a calling station then what you want to do is bet according to what you think they will call on. and if the person is agro then you want to trap those kind of players. Hope this helps

If they cheq, i will bet small 1 or 2 BB, and then depending on the Turn bet big or just cheq/fold.

IcyNicy said:

Hhm. These days I am able to play only freerolls. The game there you know isn't perfect. I mean at all) To bet on the flop I think is quite good, and your arguments are quite convincible. But it seems that I just got used too much to calling stations who will call whatever and whenever they have. Anyway thx for a good advise.

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Both check and bet are appropriate lines, just wanted to explain why betting is also an option

It would depend on what the preflop action was, and what the cards on the flop, the mere fact of being a flushdraw does not allow an adequate conclusion to be drawn. usually I would try a semibluff and it would increase.

If they check around and you're 1 in 3 to make your flush you shouldn't give them a free card.

Betting here does two things:
1 - You can decrease the amount of people in the bot, most likely increasing your equity or you'll take the pot right there, and,
2 - You gain information on anybody that calls/raises and you can assume they've got a hand.

The only time I would check around is if you're really short stacked and would want to see the free card before doing anything.

My two cents.

I honestly feel like some sites give the flush when there are flush draws more than others. To me it sometimes depends on the site, but yes I know that's a terrible way to play.

Bet it for sure- maybe half the pot. If both players checked you may take it down right there. Always play to win.

I'm trying to adopt and apply conservative gameplay, I'm applying check with Draw much stronger than that, and if there is any action from the other players fold in some situations. Being conservative is not easy, but it's a wonderful skill and you can apply it wisely.

gabethegimp said:

If they check around and you're 1 in 3 to make your flush you shouldn't give them a free card.

Betting here does two things:
1 - You can decrease the amount of people in the bot, most likely increasing your equity or you'll take the pot right there, and,
2 - You gain information on anybody that calls/raises and you can assume they've got a hand.

The only time I would check around is if you're really short stacked and would want to see the free card before doing anything.

My two cents.

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Very well said!

wsbar said:

I'm trying to adopt and apply conservative gameplay, I'm applying check with Draw much stronger than that, and if there is any action from the other players fold in some situations. Being conservative is not easy, but it's a wonderful skill and you can apply it wisely.

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Need to remind myself of this next time it's limped to me in SB w AK soooted !

Thanks !

Another reason to bet your draw is that you may not get paid by
your opponents when the flush card comes.

I have a buddy who will shove on the flop if he is 4-flushed.

But it is such a weird move that he gets called occasionally and
he's ok with that because he is hoping to have outs.

Good luck !

Poker_Mike said:

I have a buddy who will shove on the flop if he is 4-flushed.

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I would love to meet him on a table some day.

I check if the opponent at the table raises I call

Poker_Mike said:

Another reason to bet your draw is that you may not get paid by
your opponents when the flush card comes.

I have a buddy who will shove on the flop if he is 4-flushed.

But it is such a weird move that he gets called occasionally and
he's ok with that because he is hoping to have outs.

Good luck !

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Please bring this guy to Milwaukee, Wisconsin - would love to play with him.

Your buddy is shoving with four card flushes because he thinks he blocks enough combinations to bluff made flushes. (For example, your buddy thinks his ace of spades blocks all potential ace high flushes, so he feels he has the right to bluff out pots). I love using this strategy but primarily on the turn or river. On a monotone flop, often times people at low stakes live will call anything to make their flush, even if they feel the opponent has made a flush already depending on how high their kicker is.

3betfish said:

Please bring this guy to Milwaukee, Wisconsin - would love to play with him.

Your buddy is shoving with four card flushes because he thinks he blocks enough combinations to bluff made flushes. (For example, your buddy thinks his ace of spades blocks all potential ace high flushes, so he feels he has the right to bluff out pots). I love using this strategy but primarily on the turn or river. On a monotone flop, often times people at low stakes live will call anything to make their flush, even if they feel the opponent has made a flush already depending on how high their kicker is.

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OK - sounds like there is some interest in playing with my buddy. Soo I offer to auction him off to the highest bidder ! LOL

You are exactly correct in your analysis. And of course some of the time his opponent will fold to that kind of aggression - even with the better hand (which unto itself is good poker).

I have been at tables where players are giggling at his play when he turns his hand up for the win or the loss. I have respect for his game and just want to be able to predict his play.

I have watched him go on 8-hour tremendous runs in tournaments. Sometimes it is just his day and he is a meat grinding machine. I have watched him shove on AA and the poor guy has a sick look on his face as he calls off his stack w his AA preflop and just knows he's going to lose the hand somehow to this methodical maniac with perhaps K3 sooted. LOL

Good luck !

stil370 said:

so heres the situation, you have been dealt king and 8 of hearts. Flop brings 2 more hearts but you have no pair. 2 other players still in after flop. both check around, it is your turn to bet-how do you play it? I know your chances of making that flush are about1/3. how would you play this?

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Hey. If your hand can not hold a check-raise, then check. If you play against donkeys, then check again. If you have a combo-draw, then you have to check-raise and raise, because you will win more than 50% of the time. Flush draw is bad because it is very noticeable and may be you don't have any potential pot odds ... Look at the book "The Mathematics of Poker by Bill Chen" - there is a chapter about draw-hands.