The flush draw.

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redwards92

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Alright so this seems to be the draw that loses me the most money so I am looking to improve my game in this area.

I am fairly new to advanced poker strategy (implied odds, reverse implied odds, EV/bet sizing etc..)


Although I do realize when to call and when I shouldn't, I just can't seem to lay it down.

Is there a profitable method of playing more flush draws when the odds/implied odds say not to??

If not just tell me to stop being stupid and just fold when I should and the should suffice lol.
 
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DunningKruger

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Hard to say. I'm feeling tried right now after wrapping up a lloonngg session tonight but I'll try to string some thoughts together.

It's sometimes said to play flush draws aggressively but you need a fair amount of fold equity to do so. Getting stacks in as a 2 to 1 underdog is overrated. If you don't think you have implied odds or there's a chance what you call off isn't going to be all of the money you'll need to put in the middle on that street, then nothing wrong with folding ofc. When someone is all in versus your flush draw it becomes a simple math calculation really, but if there's money behind then implied odds are very important because you want to get paid for your hand when you bink, right. Uhh what else. A flush draw by itself is usually enough of a reason to cbet when you're the preflop raiser. Nut flush draws are very good friends of yours while the crappity ones can sometimes be unreliable-ish. Nothing says life hates you more than getting in your T high flush draw (maybe with a gutter to go with it) and getting called by a naked Q high flush draw and then losing a 176bb pot to Q high when everyone bricks. I really don't think I'm going to come up with anything too profound here right now. I guess nuances aside, it's just a draw. Regardless of your hand, understand your equity (fold equity + pot equity) and obv your opponent and play your hand accordingly. Passive play out of position is death btw. Don't be that guy. Flush draw or no flush draw. Use a four colour deck too. I don't use them because i hate them but they're better for flush draws. Flush draws have quite a bit less worth on paired flops but you knew that already.
 
Demonomania

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Hard to say. I'm feeling tried right now after wrapping up a lloonngg session tonight but I'll try to string some thoughts together.

It's sometimes said to play flush draws aggressively but you need a fair amount of fold equity to do so. Getting stacks in as a 2 to 1 underdog is overrated. If you don't think you have implied odds or there's a chance what you call off isn't going to be all of the money you'll need to put in the middle on that street, then nothing wrong with folding ofc. When someone is all in versus your flush draw it becomes a simple math calculation really, but if there's money behind then implied odds are very important because you want to get paid for your hand when you bink, right. Uhh what else. A flush draw by itself is usually enough of a reason to cbet when you're the preflop raiser. Nut flush draws are very good friends of yours while the crappity ones can sometimes be unreliable-ish. Nothing says life hates you more than getting in your T high flush draw (maybe with a gutter to go with it) and getting called by a naked Q high flush draw and then losing a 176bb pot to Q high when everyone bricks. I really don't think I'm going to come up with anything too profound here right now. I guess nuances aside, it's just a draw. Regardless of your hand, understand your equity (fold equity + pot equity) and obv your opponent and play your hand accordingly. Passive play out of position is death btw. Don't be that guy. Flush draw or no flush draw. Use a four colour deck too. I don't use them because i hate them but they're better for flush draws. Flush draws have quite a bit less worth on paired flops but you knew that already.

I love this explanation. +1
 
Demonomania

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Makes a lot of sense

Seriously though, I started to read this the other night and almost didn't because it looked to be another wall of text..
turned out to be a humorous well put explanation in dealing with FDs.
 
Lucothefish

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Yeah DK was too tired to find the ENTER key but +1 all the same :)

I'd like to add that flush draws have stable equity against a wide range. Like whether your villain is a loosey goosey or a tightey whitey, your equity in the hand won't change much because you're drawing to the nuts - so either you hit and you're a hero or you don't and you're a donk, but the villain's range matters less when you have a drawing hand than when you have a made hand e.g TPTK, where villain tendencies will hugely affect your equity.

Suited connectors and Axs - I'm assuming this is cash because chasing draws in tournaments sucks. Basically you're looking to see a cheap flop with these in LP when others have already limped in, otherwise just fold them. You need good implied odds or they will never win you money.

Keep in mind that a NFD with two overcards has 15 outs not 9 so you can really play it aggressively.

Also, read DK's post again.
 
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DunningKruger

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I have no recollection of writing this. Won't let me edit / delete either. Oh well.
 
BlackMoth5

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I have no recollection of writing this. Won't let me edit / delete either. Oh well.

LOL! It was a good explanation though.

Play flush draws aggresively especially if you have the Ace. I personally like to bluff like I have the flush when I am on middle pair or a "2nd best" hand.
 
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nkrijeka

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I get pretty aggressive when my flush hits, but every now and then my weak flush will get dominated by a fourth suited card hitting the turn/river.
 
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redwards92

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I get pretty aggressive when my flush hits, but every now and then my weak flush will get dominated by a fourth suited card hitting the turn/river.
haha I was playing a live game at a club I go to on Sunday and ended up with 3c4c in the BB with like 2 limpers so I checked.

Flopped an OESD with 1 club on the board, called a 1kbet and turned a flush draw to go with that OESD, then hit another club on the river for the flush.

dude also hit the flush though with 10c9c which was sooooooo gross.

such a sick board for me and my 3c4c lol
 
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