Dunning-Kruger effect

Do you believe majority of donks and fishes are suffering from Dunning-Kruger effect?
For those of you who don't know what Dunning-Kruger effect is, Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.
This is named after the two professors who gave tests to his psychology students and have them rate themselves on how confident they are about how they did on their exams. Turns out that people who scored higher tended to rate themselves lower since they're in doubt, while people who scored lower tended to rate themselves higher since they believe that if they slightly know about something, that means they know it.

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Thanks, that is most likely a major part of the syndrome.

The urge to gamble is a more primitive aspect of the brain than some of the higher brain functions useful to becoming a winning player, most people are on that lower level, hence the popularity of pure gambling (such as slot machines) even with negative EV, and the large number of losing players who treat poker as gambling, rather than a game of skill (apparently many politicians share that belief system

Interesting post P ,all I can say is I hope I get lots of people with DK effect at my tables cause that would make the game sooooooo much easier....lol......GL......scorp

I think people who are suffering DK effect, tend to stay that way because when variance helps them out, they're too stupid to realize that they got lucky or that they're making -EV plays because it looks like +EV play when they win.

One thing I realized is that majority of poker players think they know how to play poker and think they know what they're doing. They don't question anything about their plays nor analyze. If you go to casinos, you can find lot of these rebuying degenerates who are too stupid to realize that they are tilted and that they are not playing their game. There are lot online too.

Almost nobody starts out as a long-term profiting player. It's just matter of who's smart enough to realize that they have a leak in their game and fix it, and who's too stupid to realize that they have a leak. Ones that attempt to study and fix their leaks eventually work towards becoming a profiting player while people with DK effect can never become a profiting player because they're too stupid to realize themselves. DK effect basically means stupid people are too stupid to realize that they're stupid.

And like scorpion1367 said, I wish I find more of these at my tables. It's just frustrating when their -EV plays gets rewarded under your expenses. But as I've been to casinos many times lately, last year and this year, I find so many of these people, who are just degenerates chasing after their money because they think they're good enough players who can make their money back and that they just only bcz they were unlucky.

I can confirm that for myself. HeHe. When started I thought I was better than any one else. Then later I realize how bad a player I was. I am still working that upward climb in the graph.

I doubt there are very many poker players who don't over-rate themselves. It's really a matter of degree.

DonKey effect

This is a concept that I think has been apparent to most of us but have not had a name or graph to go with it. Last night I played at a casino with a guy who claimed to play pro in Vegas during the 80's. Well, of course, he called my QQ all in pre flop with a J8o(a real pro move!). He hit trip 8's and gloated about his "great" play. As you can probably guess he left all his money at the table. Perfect example.

Fortunately for us, just being in these forums gives us the opportunity to learn and to correct sour leaks!

I believe I suffer from this attribute, however I would much rather have remained in my blissful ignorance. Now I might need to actually consider that I'm not the next Tom Dwan

But seriously though, it does seem pretty apparent that most poker players and especially the donks are affected by this to some degree. even most winning players have dealt with it before.

Im currently at lowest point of the diagram and now after reading this i can really realized how i followed same path from highest point of confidence all the way down, where i am right now, but learning and training like crazy, im optimistic to see results soon

This makes me think of the people sitting at low stakes live cash games with sunglasses and a hoodie but consistently make awful decisions and have no concept of the real odds of the game.

I think I'm between the top of the graph and the vertex. 25% away from knowing nothing. My beginner's luck made me confident as if I know what I'm doing and that I'm profiting but yet, when I lost all of my profit and started losing, that's when it really humbled me down to the point where I just assume I know nothing. Joined this forum, started studying and researching poker strategies, advices, etc. I've made up all of my losses and I've profited enough to beat microstakes online(5NL and 10NL), and $1/$2 live. I just feel that for me to get to expert level, I can only do that by proving that I can crush stakes higher than what I'm currently playing in long-term base. I will have to work harder and once I get out of microstakes, I would have to be more open to learn various strategies to crush stakes higher than micro. Ego can be a b****. I think variance that helps donks and fishes win prevent them from realizing this as well.

Am I the only person who is bothered that the label on the graph reads "No Nothing" and not "Know Nothing"?

vinnie said:

Am I the only person who is bothered that the label on the graph reads "No Nothing" and not "Know Nothing"?

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Arjonius said:

I doubt there are very many poker players who don't over-rate themselves. It's really a matter of degree.

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I don't. Or does that mean I do?

this happens to me but when I want poker poker run some tests and see the questions with me when I realize sometimes I answer this bad, I focus both on a concept that brings me to answer some Wrong Questions

Example:
Bubble Game: A player with a big stack goes all-in. You are in the big blind with a stack averaging nearly 15BB with KK. Igualas??

A. Definitely yes

B. Of course not

C. It depends on the position of the big stack at the table. If you are in middle position or retreated, otherwise equate.

For example I here I chose the [C].
You judge me Well my response is answered Yes or No?

He added that this is an excellent post Thanks and Regards