Donk betting

rsimms

rsimms

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I read a bit about donk betting lately. The conclusion that I reached is that the majority of the time donk betting is a no no. By betting into an aggressor you are losing the opportunity to gather information on your villain, leaving yourself vulnerable to over bets, check raising is better because it is a very powerful move, and more than liking the PFR with c-bet. Unless you are an advanced player capable of balancing a donk bet range, the only good time to d-bet is when you flop a made hand vulnerable to draws.

When you are playing, and an opponent donk bets into you, what does it usually mean:
-When coming from a poor player
-When coming from a good player
 
AKQ

AKQ

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Ive seen the pros lead out before on bluffs and sometimes to induce a reraise by a said overpair if you looking to stack him of course good way to get lotssa chips in
 
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vpashuta

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I found donk betting is a good way to lose all my chips. If you bet out with nothing and get called, it's time to reevaluate firing another barrel unless you are certain the villain is on a draw. I've lost too many times refusing to believe the caller has a real hand. Pick your bluff spots very carefully and with purpose.
 
PHX

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I always bet like a donkey does that count?

But joing aside it is a handy approach to use sometimes. But like anything there is a time and place for it.


To answer your questions:


Against poor players it is either a random bluff or a strong hand like top pair that they are excited about.


Against good players it can mean a number of things. A coomon reason is protections from draws and overcards. Sometimes they just looking for information. Or it could be a value bet when they feel that they are likely to not get value on later streets. Could also mean bluff as well if they feel it is a bad board for you or if the stacksizes dictate that you will have to make a decision essentially for your stack they can use it to apply pressure.
 
rsimms

rsimms

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I'm not planning on incorporating a regular donk bet into my game. I more so wanted to try to figure out what a donk bet means from a poor or good player with regards to strength of hand, how often is it used for a bluff, etc. Coming from a poor player, they might not even know how bad of a play it is, so does that mean they hit their cards? Coming from a good player, what does it mean when they donk bet? Maybe they perceive me as a weak player, maybe they have a vulnerable hand like I mentioned before?
 
terryk

terryk

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A donk-bet itself is a dumb play,,,,but set up properly,it could yield alot of chips.;)
 
A

Andy3B

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There is always n-1 players on the table hunting the 1 betting donk
to take it
out.
They usually die early in the tournament; so, the rule is: tight is right.
 
blueskies

blueskies

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I don't do it but usually when I see villain do it against me it is a tiny feeler bet.

How I counter it depends on villain. I don't really have a set way to respond. Depends on how the action had gone up to the hand. How I perceive the villain's range. Etc.

As far as board texture, if I flopped a draw and theboard looks like it probably hit villain, then I will call. If I have air or a made hand, I will raise.

If I have a monster (eg flopped FH) and the board is wet, I will definitely just call and give villain a chance to hit his str or flush. It's my favorite hand. FH vs. a draw and completes on the river. Usually it's a double up.
 
grumblbrumbl

grumblbrumbl

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Donk can increase the pot too much, which risks attaching you to the hand. I've seen so many times how people put a donk in a bluff and eventually fly out of the tournament, on a flat spot. Donk is a subtle tool in the hands of a poker player. Must be used wisely.
 
Gohaku94

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I donk bet when i want to play for stacks mostly. If i hit a set vs 3 people and i am oop and they are all pretty passive i don't want anyone to see a free card or check an overpair.
 
shinedown.45

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I'll occasionally donk bet with as little as bottom pair on a relatively dry board, only when facing players who tend to be tight and there is a good chance I'll get a fold.
 
NHequalsFU

NHequalsFU

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I will sometimes donk bet marginal holdings against nits since they will fold a good % of the time.

I will also do the same with strong holdings against aggressive players trying to induce a raise.
 
Serjo600

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I read a bit about donk betting lately. The conclusion that I reached is that the majority of the time donk betting is a no no. By betting into an aggressor you are losing the opportunity to gather information on your villain, leaving yourself vulnerable to over bets, check raising is better because it is a very powerful move, and more than liking the PFR with c-bet. Unless you are an advanced player capable of balancing a donk bet range, the only good time to d-bet is when you flop a made hand vulnerable to draws.

When you are playing, and an opponent donk bets into you, what does it usually mean:
-When coming from a poor player
-When coming from a good player
the donk's into you when you give a reason for this, for example the villain of AK and of course he doesn't want them to fold on the flop, he puts a cb in a noob villain has a high fold rate for the cb and lowest rate wtsd. Or simply the pot is played in such a way that the villain in the position puts the highest cards or draw in the position - it's normal. If on the contrary it is better to play passively and try to get if it makes sense and we've got something. :wink:
 
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CallmeFloppy

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There are times when a donk bet can be effective but generally it is better to avoid. I can see donk betting into an opponent when you flop a very strong hand and know your opponent will came back over the top.
 
rsimms

rsimms

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I got taken advantage of by a donk better at a live game on Wednesday, I am still tilted about it.

I had KQo, mid stage of the game. I PFR and the big blind calls. Flop comes 10 rag rag, 2 spades. I cbet, the BB calls. Turn comes a brick, I Cbet, but it was a little too small, the BB calls. River comes another 10, and the BB donk bets at me with a med size bet. I folded my king high and he flips over the busted flush draw, 7 or 8 high.


It pisses me off a lot thinking about it how weak the play was;
1) Villain is a good player. I was giving him credit for hitting trips, and betting very thin for value to get me to call
2) Betting into the aggressor should have sent off alarms in my head. I was thinking that he didn't want to miss on the opportunity to get more chips from his hand. Maybe he had a weak 10, T9, T8, and didn't want to raise me on the flop.
3) I didn't take enough time to think over the situation.


In hindsight, I should have made the call based on the following;
1) A good player donk betting into the aggressor on a scare card (paired board) is suspicious. If he thought I would bet into him, he could have gotten more from his potential trips or full house.
2) A call from the big blind should have told me how wide his range was. Any ace could have beat me, maybe he had the A of spades that kept him in. The wide range should have told me that it was just as likely, or more that he had weak cards.


The only question is now should I have called and taken the chance at showdown, or raised him since my hand was vulnerable to take it down without a showdown, and left the action up to him to potentially go all in on a bluff? Hopefully this doesn't turn me into a calling station!
 
sedlacekj

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I donk bet when i want to play for stacks mostly. If i hit a set vs 3 people and i am oop and they are all pretty passive i don't want anyone to see a free card or check an overpair.


I think this also depends on the flop. If no straight or flush draws are apparent, then it doesn't matter if they draw. If they draw something good in that case, they usually only make pairs and might bet into the pot increasing your winnings. Of course, the overpair is a problem if that opponent makes a set, but this opponent will call your donk bet too, and still be a problem on later streets. If you donk bet here, only the over pair will stick around. If you let the others find a reason to stick around they might put in more chips if they draw a pair. Be wary of overcards appearing on later streets, since they might connect with the overpair opponent.

If the flop is flushy or straightish, and you donk, whoever calls or re-raises is playing that flush or straight. and all else will fold. It is difficult to see how it helps when you are ahead, and certainly doesn't help if you're behind. The only scenario where it helps you get more chips is when the donk-caller misses the draw. Against looser players this might work, since they might do this with speculative draws, but really good players are not overinflating a pot on a weak draw. If the draw has a 16% chance to hit, and pot-odds are 50%, they will never call it. Only the slimmest donk bets will be called here.

All that being said, it is difficult for me to see how donk betting is profitable when used this way.
 
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bzvz222

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I will sometimes donk bet marginal holdings against nits since they will fold a good % of the time.

I will also do the same with strong holdings against aggressive players trying to induce a raise.

Yeah I would probably lean to making similar decisions, but it seems to me it's crucial not to be percieved as a donk if caught in such action. When I get caught playing like a donk, I just hope software removes me to another table as soon as possible :)
 
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Donk betting makes sense in HU or three way at the flop. In multi-way pots consist of more than 4 players I don’t think this definition makes any sense
Most of the tables I play at experienced play in early position allow the later position players bet out in the first round of betting postflop
2 or 3 to the flop most of the time players don’t hit so on the flop so it’s advisable to take it down on a lockdown board and I rather take control right at the flop with a “donkbet” as a semi bluff or pure bluff I generally prefer to do it in MP then BB in three way in the flop
“donkbet “ BB at the turn to make more believable that I might have something as a pure bluff

Though in higher limits I find there are so good players that don’t believe you and will call or reraise more often so this strategy works half the time
 
Y

yoejslattery

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Like most things in poker it depends on your situations. I mostly will do it for protection. However, It also depends on what you are defining as donk betting. My understanding is that donk betting is when someone leads the betting after the flop into the previous aggressor. That means that someone had to have raised preflop. I try to either call from position or 3-bet if I am going to be out of position and therefore don't have a lot of opportunity to donk bet in the strictest definition.

On the other hand, if its a limped pot sometimes I will do it (again not the real definition) with the plan to double/ triple barrel depending on the run out.

It is probably an ok play if you think you are in the lead because then you are doing it for value and preventing a check behind. Not sure it gets you good value though, one of those win small lose big situations.

On still the other hand (haha i keep thinking of knew things to say) if your image is very tight it would probably be good as a bluff.
 
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fundiver199

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My understanding is that donk betting is when someone leads the betting after the flop into the previous aggressor.

Exactly. You can also donk bet the turn or river, but someone with position on you has to have put in a bet on the previous street. If it goes check-bet-call on the flop, check-check on the turn, and the out of position player lead the river, then its not called a donk bet.
 
BelFish

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Donk bets must be balanced (with draws and with nuts). I read that new ii programm, which crushed the group of professional players, often used donk bets and sometimes even overbets ))
 
F

fundiver199

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Donk bets must be balanced (with draws and with nuts). I read that new ii programm, which crushed the group of professional players, often used donk bets and sometimes even overbets ))

Its true, that AI software tend to like donk betting more than most winning poker players. And maybe it is indeed a case of the pendulum having swung to far in the other direction. The tendency of new players is to donk bet far to much, and perhaps as a response to that, winning players have developed strategies, where they almost never donk bet at all.
 
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ekgbeat

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Its true, that AI software tend to like donk betting more than most winning poker players.

I think that players at the highest level are "donk betting" more than you think. They are using the solvers, and understand what makes that profitable in their strat.
 
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