Does limit translate to no limit?

STL FAN

STL FAN

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Limit poker, does this translate to no limit? Reading many posts in this forum limit for me is helping with all aspects of post flop play; reading about concerns of luck, skill, and gambling. These are topics of discussion that interest me when not playing. Limit poker especially the .02/.04 stakes this level in my opinion is the purest game of poker.


Playing this game with knowing no one can go all in unless their last bet leaves them with no chips. This is where all of my skill and strategy came from and is expanding from. Knowing that most if not all hands will go to the river and showdown happens more frequently. Understanding AA pre flop is devalued especially when I am playing against people who are still playing as if this was no limit. I look to play suited connecters against this TAG whom still only values the top part of their range. I will always look for the right table, so others will help in putting four bets pre flop against this type of an opponent.


Call stations will always help out when strategizing against this type of player. Because of maxing out only four bets this is not much different than playing no limit pre because the four bets in limit or three bb raise in no limit in normal circumstances and of the strategy of knowing what hand is needed to beat each opponent. It becomes a game of chicken in no limit because of the obvious reasons so; strategy of how to see a flop becomes the challenge. I am still targeting a certain player and limit presents more opportunities to be patient.


This is where working on check-raises and re-raises for strategy purposes were born; in position and out of position a person can get used to betting for information at first then formulating strategies for later. This is also where ranging in the beginning on the flop because I was also learning starting hands ranging was key to understand what my opponent held when the bets became bigger on the turn and river just like no limit. After years of this exercise putting a person on a hand pre-flop was being born because of the unlimited showdown hands to understand my opponents.


This led to help with post flop play after four bets for example; putting the table in this dynamics let this player attempt to make my opponents blink pre flop and post flop. The weaker opponents just donated and the better opponents would end up after a period of time a person will begin to fold unless they had it. The process of keeping the table dynamics pre-flop to four bets when I chose to play began to wear down the table. Then people began to fold to one bet post flop the very thing that many said could not be done; get people to fold to one bet in limit as the example.


These scenarios did not happen overnight but the time spent at the limit tables was well worth it. Looking for limit cash games on the site I frequent does not happen enough but I still play on Full Tilt and poker stars for play money. This helps in expanding on the same information and formulating new ways to use the old information. Limit and no limit have meshed and this has helped with my game because of Lee Jones book about limit and also Barry Tanenbaum and his knowledge of limit poker. For me strategies of limit have transferred well and the addition to no-limit strategies has helped with being creative to help disguise my hands and play.
 
gus201

gus201

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Nice read , I love the Lee Jones book . Read and reread it several times .

Ive been going PS play money area to work on things at the limit side. It sure has helped my game each time I go there after I take a break from playing .

Have a good day and my your skill over ride the variance and luck factors :)
 
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floweryhead

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Limit is very different from No Limit. bluffing is harder at limit because (especially at the micros) most people will call you down whether they have the odds to or not. I have a couple of million hands at Limit Hold'em at the micros and am a consistent winner, however, I've only recently started playing $2NL and after 6,000 hands I'm finally showing a positive win rate but my strategy is so complexly different to that at Limit. The Lee Jones book was where I started at Limit but abandoned it after I had a large enough sample (3K hands) to analyse what worked and didn't. After I'd found what didn't work I'd mess around with my starting hands until the hands I was losing on were no longer an issue. I'm only recently starting to do the same with $2NL. 6K hands isn't really a large enough sample to start analysing in too much detail but hopefully when I approach the 50K mark I'll be able to formulate strategies better. More knowledge is more power. I'm on about cash games by the way. I've never really been too bad at Sng's or tourneys but you need different strategies yet again for those.
 
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GWU73

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Not really. The exponential nature of betting in NL has a huge effect on how you should play.
 
okeedokalee

okeedokalee

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You usually can't get all your money in during limit poker.My objective playing NLHE when holding a big hand is to build a pot quickly by betting sizing pot percentages with the intention being that all my opponent(s) money is in at showdown.
During limit family pots are common whereas as the objective of NLHE is to limit the pot to one or two opponents.
The two games are totally different in my humble opinion and require very different skills:)
 
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WiZZiM

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Its great to learn how to read hands and play a much wider range both pre and postflop.
 
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bojax

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There are three major differences between limit and no limit holdem:

1) pot odds -- in limit holdem, the price is great, which results in less folding and more showdowns. In no limit holdem, you're often blown out of the pot because of the price to continue.

2) effective odds -- in limit holdem the price to see showdown is much better compared with no limit, where the price is often your whole stack.

3) implied odds -- in limit holdem, you can't win that much on future streets, but in no limit, you can win a lot.

These three differences result in very different, yet correct, play styles.
 
gus201

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Its great to learn how to read hands and play a much wider range both pre and postflop.

There are three major differences between limit and no limit holdem:

1) pot odds -- in limit holdem, the price is great, which results in less folding and more showdowns. In no limit holdem, you're often blown out of the pot because of the price to continue.

2) effective odds -- in limit holdem the price to see showdown is much better compared with no limit, where the price is often your whole stack.

3) implied odds -- in limit holdem, you can't win that much on future streets, but in no limit, you can win a lot.

These three differences result in very different, yet correct, play styles.


Id have to say if you can read hands then youd be able to know if your ahead or behind. If your ahead you can call or raise them pot sized bets , if your behind you fold and get away. Am I right ?

You then dont have to worry about how much it is unless you dont have a good read at the time in which it happens at times .

We have to remember the math is just the average and can only tell you what you ask it.

Good skill at the tables
 
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bojax

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Id have to say if you can read hands then youd be able to know if your ahead or behind. If your ahead you can call or raise them pot sized bets , if your behind you fold and get away. Am I right ?

Do your opponents never bluff? Seems like you might be putting your opponents on specific hands when you should be putting them on a range of hands that they could possibly hold.
 
gus201

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Do your opponents never bluff? Seems like you might be putting your opponents on specific hands when you should be putting them on a range of hands that they could possibly hold.


If I have the skill to put players on hands why does one need to range then throw away putting them on hands ????

I have been told to put players on hands if you can , it is a skill to acquire.
But I have been hearing the teaching has been to not put them on hands but ranges. why stop at ranges when the next step is putting them on hands.

Shouldnt we be getting the hand ranges down before the turn and before we have a quarter of our stack in the middle. I like to play with the game as much in my favor as possible .
If it takes work and practice then thats what I will do to be a better player and one day I will be play for good money live and may make a living at it.

If I play on hope, ( I hope I am ahead , I hope luck wins the pot for me , I hope I made the right moves against this player , I hope the deck gives me my card I already have all my chips in the middle. )

This is what I dont like playing with ... Hope .

It is up to me and my reads and knowing how others play and how I play. My play is what will make or break me. Not LUCK or the deck but my skill I have taken time to develope and work on to get to the level to do things that others feel are impossible to do .

Funny a freind and I was just talking about this and how many players have put a block on things and cant get past some of the basic things that need known but needs to be put off to the side to play other ways for reasons that would be hard to explain unless you are on that level of understanding .

Good Skill at the table
 
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bojax

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If I have the skill to put players on hands why does one need to range then throw away putting them on hands ????

I have been told to put players on hands if you can , it is a skill to acquire.
But I have been hearing the teaching has been to not put them on hands but ranges. why stop at ranges when the next step is putting them on hands.

When you put your opponent on a range, you're accounting for all of the possible hands your opponent could hold. This is correct hand reading.
 
gus201

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When you put your opponent on a range, you're accounting for all of the possible hands your opponent could hold. This is correct hand reading.

So what your saying you put a player on every possible hand like say 60 to 120 hands and then do a process if elimination as the hand progresses ?

I find that a bit too much for hands and hand ranges , every possible hand ???
I focus on hands that the player in the hand would play , in that posistion with what has happened Like a raise or reraise ect...

You have to be tryin to tighten their hand ranges to get them on a hand as quick as possible other wise your a day late and a dollar short.

If I would put a player in late position on every possible hand you might as well put him on the whole deck and then why would you play against that person in late position then.

Here is what they used to teach players but it has become a money making profit for the trainers and to have some thing that is hard and takes time and effort that most poker players dont want to put in .

http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/archives/spath23.htm

check out the Dean Of the old PSO way before poker stars even thought of having a PSO . Stars bought out the old PSO .

My statements and my different points of view on things is just to give out to other players options and other ways of playing their hands , Position and so on . so many players think there is only 1 correct way of playing hands and position, ECT .... when there really isnt an exact way

Like I have stated before its just my opinion take what you can or dont take anything at all its all up to the individual.

Never be scared to ask questions and never let your ego get the best of you . You will then start to be open to things and things wont tilt you as much either .

Good Skill at the tables
 
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bojax

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So what your saying you put a player on every possible hand like say 60 to 120 hands and then do a process if elimination as the hand progresses ?

I find that a bit too much for hands and hand ranges , every possible hand ???

I put my opponent on a range depending on his or her position. This includes every hand that I think they'd play in that position. Then as the action plays out, I refine my opponents range depending on his or her tendencies. You should download Equilab, which is free. Playing around with ranges will make you a much better player. It may seem like a lot of guess work at first, but just the simple act of plugging the ranges into an equity calculator will improve your hand reading.
 
gus201

gus201

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Ill have to check it out . I dont use any tool ,I do all the reading myself and play accordingly.

Thank You for your point of view. I have never looked into the equity calculator Ive done it all n my head as the game play moves along .

Have a great day and Good Skill at the tables
 
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badalhoco345

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Limit is very diferent of no limit. I think no limit it's better: better to read your oponente, better to bluff, better to learn... With limit, many players will bet with short hands, it's harder to catch your opponents style of game. There are many variables.
 
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