Do you really think a VPIP of 27 (or similar) is loose?

gupiel0k69 said:

Vpip doesn't tell the whole story, i mean it doesn't tell you how loose the player is playing from all of the positions. You can be opening like 50% from the button and play pretty tight from other positions and still have the same Vpip as player who opens mediocre hands from all of the positions. That's why i like have positional Vpip stats. On 6-max 27 vpip is like standard, on FR it's on the looser side imo.

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DS3 said:

A VPIP rate is dependent on what a player feels comfortable with looked at from one perspective- by definition a looser player will play more hands.

But a VPIP rate of 27% is generally regarded as statistically on the loose side (even for 6 max) which sort of takes 'opinion' out of the picture.

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texasfoldem said:

If you look at the hands that make up that extra 6% above optimum, the player is still playing good hands. They are possibly playing hands that are not so good out of position. However, as long as they are folding the more speculative hands if they know they have nothing much, then they are not much different than someone at 21%.

Take for example playing low pockets in early positions. If you don't hit a set on the flop then it is best to fold to most betting. Another thing is if the betting gets too furious pre-flop then those not so good hands will just get folded.

I have reduced my VPIP now to closer to 21%... I have however had an absolutely tragic 2 or 3 days though. I do not know what on earth has happened but I am losing massively. It is soul destroying because I have been grinding my way up for weeks with consistent wins. All of a sudden every second hand is a flush or straight. All my sets lose to complete newbies. I am getting to the point where if I see 3 of the same suit on the table it automatically means my VPIP 100 opponent has a flush without fail!! The river card is also plain evil... always the river card playing against me...

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texasfoldem said:

I have a tendency to find that my VPIP does go somewhat close to the 30% mark on occasions. Generally speaking it is below that though (possibly more like 24-26). I noticed that my overall VPIP after 10s of thousands of hands is still 27% but it is going down over time now, bit by bit, as I gain more experience. For example, I tend to fold most Ace and low cards that are off-suit especially if I am not in late position.

When you look at the hands for 27% VPIP, that player is not really playing rubbish hands pre-flop. It means they are playing certain speculative hands that somewhat tighter players would probably fold in certain positions like, for example, 22 UTG. It does not necessarily mean that the player is going to bet on rubbish. If you do play more speculative hands it does indeed mean you have to fold more hands when the table cards are useless.

I personally consider 27% VPIP quite tight. What do you think about this?

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Evan Jarvis said:

If you play 27% of hands from all positions the issue is that you are going to get 3-bet a lot potentially and get flatted in position by many hands that dominate you.

Playing this kind of range in late position where you will likely have position for the remainder of the hand is totally fine, but the thing is if you are opening 27% into 4 or 5 players odds are someone has been dealt a better hand than you

what's the best hand on average on a 5 handed table? top 20%, and 6 handed? 16.7%
So to avoid playing at a disadvantage out of the gate it helps to respect the charts.

On a table where everyone just calls and you get to control all bet sizes vs passive players, sure, play all your suited aces, suited kings, pairs, suited connectors and gappers all that it's fine.

If you play amazing postflop and your opponents make many mistakes you want to be seeing as many flops as possible. But in games where other players play well too I think respecting that and not getting too out of line is best.

That being said many players win with 27% VPIP, but calling that tight and wanting to go way beyond that in 6-max means you will need some very solid reads on your opponents.

Sounds like if someone can pull it off it's you though!
And playing loose definitely forces us to learn postflop very well which is a great bonus!

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