Do people actually shove with Air?

It's one thing to preflop raise with whatever you feel comfortable, or lucky playing with. It's also something else to make a C-bet to defend the pot on the flop. But when your opponent calls, and you continue firing on the turn, and shove all in with air on the river, is it just me or is this a recipe for disaster? Do people actually do this? And is it somewhat of an effective strategy for TAGs, or any other type of player other then the calling station. I want your oppinion, because I seriously contemplated if my opponent was bluffing, or was representing a low pair.

i do sometimes ...but only if i strogly believe that the vilain will fold and my previous betting line suggests that i hit the nuts.

let's say if i am at SB and the Button folds to 4bet 99% yeah i will shove

Could be making a bluff or that considering that your hand is lower than that of the

It's such a bold move, you typically believe he's gotta have something. If you only pay to find out, because rarely will you get to see his cards. This is one of the trickiest bluffs to call with something like a pair of 5's. Or two pair. Thank you for your responses.

i do

The player I like because they rarely adjust is the guy that bets all streets and shoves river after tanking. Easy to find because he overbets and is overly active and does this move repeatedly. Its like the damn now what syndrome when they get called!
You ever find this player mark them as they are easy money but you also need to donate to stack them,meaning you have to act like you are not just slowplaying him and willing to fold.

Interesting. So call him with top pair? Or try and complete drawing hands?

shoving with air on river

If it looks like my opponent was waiting for a draw and did not get it then I might shove.

kozong said:

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Easy to shove with only 4.5 BBs but in cash you usually start with 100BBs so alot different to 4Bet or 5Bet shove with nothing.

High stakes players tend to do it alot with blockers when they have good reads and also the maniacs at the micros

Fair enough. I know what you mean. I usually try to back up my drawing hands with at least a pair, or Ace high if I miss. But calling a shove with low pairs, two pair, or ace high freaks me out. I can't believe people bluff with air. Like me 3 barrelling with a pair of 10's, or a set of 3's with staight, or flush potentials on the board, or something, and just my luck he's flopped a flush, has me beat, and I thought he was bluffing. Even if the turn makes my hand better with a straight draw, or full house potentials I've got two more rounds of betting, and he's not giving up. He shoves, now I'm all in with mediocre holdings. Sometimes I wonder, will my risks occassionally reward me, or am I walking a thin line here that shouldn't be considered. Do I really have the best hand, and is this guy "giving" me all his money, or is he super lucky all the time, and cleverly concealing the fact that he's been bluffing with air when he misses, as well as value betting when he has a made hand. I am used to playing as a TAG, or NIT, but I'm looking to exploit LAGs occassionally as thier range is wider, and they open raise more hands pre flop. With greater VPIP contributions, I could be gaining an edge to exploit them with by committing them to a pot they were trying to float, and steal on later streets with a huge bet. I'm trying to take this to the next level with calculated aggression to maniacs, or LAGs to maximize profit from villians open raising with a wide rage. Every now and then my 5, 8 will flop trips, straights, or a boat. Which is great. I'm now value betting in position with a made hand, when I intended on bluffing, and my opponent thinks I'm actually holding nothing. Wish it was always this simple. Makes me wonder why I don't loosen up, with discretion, at the right moment, controlled, and to the right opponent in position. And if I miss, raise again! He might back off, and slow down a bit with more resistance from a TAG, or a NIT who make hero calls, or strong blocking bets, or isolation plays. Am I approaching this correctly?

People shove all the time with nothing

Some people bet with nothing and keep betting with nothing. ...they hit on the river lol.... they tend to lose more than they win.

This is why I think it's important to understand hand ranges. If you are leading out every street think about what your opponent is calling you down with. Every street you can probably do some deductive reasoning based on the board texture and possible x amount of hands/draws your opponent may have. Likewise you have to think about if every street bet made makes sense from your opponents perspective as well.

Well, in this case it all depends on who you are playing against. You can push the air into a tight neat opponent, there's no point in leaking air into the phone

they hope that their combination of cards will increase and become the strongest

vadimknyshov said:

Well, in this case it all depends on who you are playing against. You can push the air into a tight neat opponent, there's no point in leaking air into the phone

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What do you mean leakimg air into phone?

if i'm in a big pot and i'm pairing up nothing, i'm waiting for some kind of draw to materialize on board and shove as a bluff.

I have shoved before with air on the river. I kept calling villains bets and he slowed down on the river when the 2nd king showed up, it gave me a perfect opportunity to shove and he instantly folded.

EvertonGirl said:

I have shoved before with air on the river. I kept calling villains bets and he slowed down on the river when the 2nd king showed up, it gave me a perfect opportunity to shove and he instantly folded.

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I know exactly what you mean, I've done, and seen this play. That's what makes this game so sick, and has me doubting too much lately. Last week someone played this trick on me... and I tanked for a minute, then flat called to see he tried to bluff me. I had a low pair, on a fairly dry board, though there were some overcards. I understand in a full ring I can play more conservative, but in short handed games where I'm forced to loosen up, I was looking for your opinions.

Shoving with air can be very effective...

Can serve as a strategy

ughhhh that's like asking if a Bear shi*s in the woods Of course people shove with air and can be used beneficially at times if you have a read on your opponent, or narrowed down to a specific range that you believe you can get to fold out

Thank you for your comments- And about bears crapping in the woods, I was being sarcastic friend, relax. I am aware people shove with air, it just seemed reckless, so I wanted everyones opinion. Sorry that this post didn't hold up to your expectations, next time just don't respond. Take it easy buddy.

steve101651 said:

Thank you for your comments- And about bears crapping in the woods, I was being sarcastic friend, relax. I am aware people shove with air, it just seemed reckless, so I wanted everyones opinion. Sorry that this post didn't hold up to your expectations, next time just don't respond. Take it easy buddy.

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I guess he means based on ICM, you can put pressure on other people by shoving and stealing their blinds.