daniel negraneu's small ball strategy

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lowlimitfish

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Anyone agree it is one of the most profitable way of playing poker.
 
rdm4k

rdm4k

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sry, I dont want to be rude BUT I really cant see the point staring a thread for such a vague and generic issue expressed in (half) a line.

Yes I agree. /thread. Isnt it?

I mean if y want to talk about a subject you should elaborate a little bit, be more concrete, let US understand what/why/ect we should discuss of that.

It looks like a try to be writing quality posts. Incidentally, it is not a quality post-.
m2c
 
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rugby0

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I would love to see more discession on this topic.
 
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JamaicanKid

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I think that small ball poker can be very profitable but it is a very risky strategy.............. I've tried it before for a few sessions with great success, the thought process was that majority of the other players were going to be raising with high cards so almost every time that the flop came 'low' I took advantage and won..... that's the good part of the equation, the bad part is it is too luck dependent and sooner or later you will run into calling stations and poker (Texas Holdem) is a game where high cards dominate so u'll lose more than u gain........seems to work out just fine so Negreanu though so maybe u'll have the same luck.....I wouldn't recommend it though...
 
JPoling

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I feel as small ball is more of a live poker thing to try. Don't get me wrong occasionally maybe try to when in position. But I just wouldnt recommend it. I think one of the reasons it works so well for daniel is on his skill on reading a player and ranging their hand. Not saying can't be done online, just in my opinion is a harder style of play online.
 
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JamaicanKid

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I feel as small ball is more if a live poker thing to try. Don't get me wrong occasionally maybe try to when in position. But I just wouldnt recommend it. I think one of the reasons it works so well for daniel is on his skill on reading a player and ranging their hand. Not saying can't be done online, just in my opinion is a harder style of play online.

So true....
 
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It's an art in my opinion I sometimes see it get used as a donk raise ''stab and hope'' attempt to win a pot,
It's all about the strategy you want to keep hammering certain player's and evaluating. Some may eventually lose their heads, others will clam up waiting to trap you.
Also post flop we need to know whether we are being called because we are raising to often or because someone has a strong hand.

an average player may call with a strong hand with the intention to trap you into paying them off.
a good player May use their image to 3-bet pre to rep strength
and some guys might just lose their heads and start playing back without taking any consideration as to what there image is or whether w ehave switched gears. (these are the players we want at our table when playing small ball) Adventually we wake up with a hand and often end up taking their chips
 
crocoduck11

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Anyone agree it is one of the most profitable way of playing poker.
I am 99% sure he said that only works for very advanced players so I wouldn't really recommend it unless you're so good you don't need to ask...
 
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I've read his chapter in Power Hold'em Strategies and even though I do not use the strategy, I love it. I love watching it and I sure as hell would love to use it but I don't think I'm ready. Everyone has their own opinions on it but I think it's an effective strategy to have in your arsenal. I(Still being a beginner) normally play a conservative game but when I switch gears, I usually implement some of the theories behind it into my game. I hope someday I get to the skill level needed to be able to play it. I just really suck at post-flop play so I'm stuck playing power poker hahaha.
 
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Tgen

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Small ball isnt a strategy , its a bet size , some raise the minimum others raise the pot , its only a matter of preference and how much variance you want to add into your game.

Playing with small bet sizes will give more odds to your opponents to call you down but you will also profit if they dont adjust well , is this good or not? depends on your opponents , does it change the hands you play from each position drastically? no probably not
 
pcgnome

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Playing small-ball strategy is something you HAVE to know if you are just a beginner. Negraneu's two "Poker Wisdom" books are pretty much the same thing, but they are also worth reading as well. :)
 
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I have tried couple of times, and failed a lot. I would say you need a good read on your opponents to use it.
So at online, you need tracking software+notes+some history of at least some players at table.
And of course, great post flop skill.
 
rytciaq

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I think if you can afford to maintain small ball strategy for a long time, it's the way to go. It's high risk, but high reward too. I love playing suited connectors, if you hit you are golden, if you don't it's an easy fold.
 
pcgnome

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Using some body else's poker strategy isn't going to work. It might not be right for you, and you may misinterpret it. I've heard that you have to keep studying different strategies until you work out a style that's right for you. :)
 
suby_rafael

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It is definitely not necessarily the most profitable way to play poker especially not in cash games. However he does it to deal with variance to some extent while playing at a tournament or mtt.

He does this because this reduces his chance of busting out / getting crippled in any one particular hand at any stage of a tournament by not getting involved in big pots by deliberately trying to keep the size of the pot smaller. As we know a mtt field can be pretty large and in any stage variance or cooler type situation can bring about ones downfall. So daniel uses this strategy to give him the best chance to run deep in a tourney. Of course he mixes this up in between when he has the nuts or knows he can get more value of of a hand or a situation or against a particular player - here he tries to extract value by by betting big or shoving for value.

So it is just one of the many strategies he uses while playing a tournament as one just cannot only play small ball all the way and expect to win a tournament because it would mean would lose less but also win less. Even phil ivey does this sometimes as do many players these days. :icon_stud
 
dj11

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Using some body else's poker strategy isn't going to work. It might not be right for you, and you may misinterpret it. I've heard that you have to keep studying different strategies until you work out a style that's right for you. :)

+1

There are parts of that small ball scheme that you will use and like, and maybe even get better as you understand them. But yeah, it will more likely become a mere part of YOUR game. I always thought it was a method to allow us to be a little more adventurous, while retaining some semblance of pot control, and perhaps limiting losses. This method along with every other 'method' are things you should be trying to understand.

In the end, you will find your own game, but you can't stop there because once you find it, others will see what you are doing, and adjust accordingly.
 
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To play that strategy you have to have a lot of years of experience. You can't just play any hand with any moves. It's not just make raises and bets whenever you want. You have to get the right spots, at the right time, with the right size bets. Don't be stupid, because 99% of the players who play that strategy are a loser money players, believe me.
 
TeUnit

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think its a really solid strategy, but its hard to be as good as daniel

also when bet sizes get to small you lose fold equity

and if he folds to much to 3bets good opponents will pick up on it
 
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ant2210

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Small ball isnt a strategy , its a bet size , some raise the minimum others raise the pot , its only a matter of preference and how much variance you want to add into your game.

Playing with small bet sizes will give more odds to your opponents to call you down but you will also profit if they dont adjust well , is this good or not? depends on your opponents , does it change the hands you play from each position drastically? no probably not

This is a complete misunderstanding of small ball. Small ball is an advanced strategy that allows good players to take advantage of the mistakes made by lesser players post flop. Although important bet sizing is only one aspect of this style. There are tones of videos on YouTube by negreanu that explains this much better than I can but this post is way too simplified and not even close to correct. I would say this strategy is a very important strategy to have in any good players arsenal as the best way to play is usually opposite to the styles of the rest of the table so having an understanding of this strategy could help your game massively and even give you that edge you need to become a winning player.
 
razva_raz94

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The most profitable way of playing poker is making your own style by studying and playing more and more :) Daniel is one of my favorites poker players but the online poker changed alot in the last years. Let's say if Negreanu or Helmuth will join an 1000NL table with few more sharks that grind 20 tables. I don't think they have any chance to win :D
 
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