Confused newbie with pot odds in microstakes

Y

yiorgoskat

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Total posts
2
Chips
0
Hi everybody,
i am very new to game(about a month), just started to play(microstakes-very small bankroll-studying a lot and english isnt my native language so please forgive me apriori for syntax and grammatical errors:) ).

I am a little bit confused with the pot odds etc.
Below i have a hand i played in 0.01/0.02 no limit holdem. i eventually won it but i am not sure whether i played it according to pot odds etc.
I'd very much appreciate your criticism and your opinions(good or bad) on evaluating this hand from pot odds - implied odds (whatever) perpective.
Here come the hand:

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 7c 7s

UTG raises to $0.06, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.06, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.15, 2 players) 5c Ts 7h
UTG bets $0.07, Hero raises to $0.14, UTG calls $0.07

Turn: ($0.43, 2 players) 9h
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.46, UTG calls $0.46

River: ($1.35, 2 players) Jc
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.93 and is all-in, UTG calls $0.93

Hero shows 7c 7s (Three of a Kind, Sevens) (Pre 19%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
UTG shows Qs Qd (One Pair, Queens) (Pre 81%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
Hero wins $3.10


:) :confused:
 
B

beerzy

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Total posts
110
Chips
0
Doesn't make sense to talk about implied odds once you have to call just 6c pre...
I'm ok with your line, but personaly if i was the vil i would fold either the turn or the river, and I personaly don't like making hero folds(even more on micro stakes with overpairs) but your line looks so strong that i would at least fold the river

The min raise on the flop looks extremly strong, and that's usually a leak in micro's players(so I advise you to go to HM pt4 and review your play and see if you're allways min-raising strong hands) cause min-raises in micros usually means strengh
By flatting the flop with pos. you would get him to put 1 more barrel in the turn and then you would raise him, once it's the best way to obtain value if he's doing that with AJ+, any pair, broadways,etc

If you ch the flop, raised the turn, then I would probably loose all my chips with overpair against you...
 
C

Caesura

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Total posts
221
Chips
0
Someone else can probably explain this better and fill in the bits I get wrong but my take is that:
pot odds are only relevant for drawing hands, i.e you need a card to finish your hand

On this flop there are no immediate flush draws but there are straight draws.
For you opponent to make a straight with ONE MORE card on a board of

5 7 T

his hole cards would have to be:

a) 34 needs 6 (4 outs) using rule of 2 he has 4 outs x 2 = 8% chance of winning.
b) 46 needs 3 or 8 ( 8outs) 16%
c) 68 needs 4 or 9 ( 8 outs) 16%
d) 89 needs 6 or J ( 8 outs) 16%

You gave him: pot =15 + villian 7= 22+ Hero 14 = 36

He has to call 7 into 36 making a pot of 43. Villains call of 7 is about 20% of total pot

With the turn being a 9

and a board of 5 7 9 T

Villain has either made his hand or he hasn't.

If he hasn't then his maximum outs for a straight are the same 16%

As the 9 is a heart he could be on a flush draw, which would be 9 outs + 6 for the remaining straight cards 15 outs x 2 = 30%

You have put in an oversize bet of 46+ pot 43 = 89
Villain must call 46 which is about 33% of pot

So really his pot odds have been wrong but close.

The implied odds of whether you would put more money in the pot if he made his draw have actually happened because with each street you have bet regardless of the fact that a drawing card appeared.

As the river was J you were both a bit foolish with those huge final bets as there is a clear straight

5 7 9 T J

So really, it depends what you wanted to do. To close the pot or get villain to put more money in.

Hope that is right and makes sense.
 
D

dan abnormal

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Total posts
1,045
Chips
0
Im glad you put that link up, that is one jam up chart, Its like a lot of this math stuff is a very weak hole in my game, VERY GOOD , and yes I Had to print up the FOR DUMMIES version. This site seems to have a wealth of good stuf that I need to check out,
 
wagon596

wagon596

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Total posts
3,767
Awards
13
Chips
11
Thanks for putting up the link, I'm going to check it out when I have some time to really look at it. I've been playing for years and still can't seem to catch on to pot-odds..I'll try for awhile and then give up. I did find a very short video by Daniel N. that gave me a slight grasp on the idea. Maybe with that video and the link I can't figure it out.
 
G

Goathair

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Total posts
249
Chips
0
There is a program called Ace Poker Drills, that you may want to check out. It has a Preflop trainer, equity trainer, and Odds/Outs trainer. It will show you situations, and quiz you on things like your equity vs their range, or your odds and outs. And through the repetitive drills, the idea is that these situations will become second nature.

It's a cool program. It also comes with an equity calculator, that has some nice features not found in Pokerstove, etc.
 
dj11

dj11

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Total posts
23,189
Awards
9
Chips
0
You might want to rethink things. You wonder if you played this hand according to pot odds. Pot odds should not be considered a method. Pot odds give you a tool to use in deciding if/how you might play a hand. Once you flopped the set, pot odds no longer are in play. They have been replaced by your tools to extract maximum value.

Most poker hands use multiple tools. Tools can be info or action.

No one's poker tool kit is ever complete.

In the very rare case that you are up against a bigger set, you have to just consider it a cooler, and move quietly on to the next hand.
 
PoKeRFoRNiA

PoKeRFoRNiA

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Total posts
1,319
Awards
1
Chips
35
Like lot of people stated here, rather than pot odds, you need to use implied odds during pre-flop with 77. Chances of flopping a set is 11.75%, which means you'll be flopping sets 1 out of every 8-9 times. You need to consider your stack and his stack. He raised 6 cents pre-flop. You're gonna flop a set 1 in every 8-9 times. So for every time you don't flop a set, you're gonna lose 6 cents. But if you flop a set, you're very likely to get all of his stack if he is an aggressive player who overplays top pairs or overpairs. So overall, for you to break even, both of you would need to have at least 48 cents for stack. Then you know that for you to break even, you and your villain has to have a stack of more than 8 times the raise of 6 cents, which is 48 cents for this call to be worth it. It's important to factor in aggression level of your villain to even consider if he'll even spew his money up if you flop your set.

On the flop, once you flopped the set, like how dj11 said, you focus on how to maximize your value and extract from him. But at the same time, if the board is extremely semi-coordinated or coordinated, such as likeliness of flush draw, then you would bet bigger and play aggressively. In your case, your flop wasn't really coordinated. So you just had to bet enough to value him in.
 
micromachine

micromachine

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Total posts
5,770
Chips
0
^^ Villains stack needs to be way more than 8x the call amount when set-mining because a lot of the time he will completely miss the flop and bet/fold or check/fold.

Stack needs to be more like 20X the call amount to profitably set-mine...can reduce to more like 15x vs UTG opens from TAGs for example, because they are more likely to have a big pair or AK, hands they can stack off with post flop.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
^^ Villain will also flop better or draw out some of the times when you hit your set. This doesn't happen all that often, but when it does, you'll usually lose the max. This also contributes to needing high implied odds for set mining to be profitable.
 
Y

yiorgoskat

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Total posts
2
Chips
0
I want to thank you all for your answers and comments. They were very helpfull and in some way showed me the level of ignorance i have!!!
So for that reason i decided to start from the beggining and read read read ...
and play a little!!!

Thank you once more for your answers and comments!!!
 
Poker Odds - Pot & Implied Odds - Odds Calculator
Top