Comprehensive list of all positive EV plays

P

pokeyou

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The aim of this thread is to compile the list of all positive EV plays / actions that we can take in Poker. Positive EV plays win us at Poker and it will be good to get the comprehensive list so that it helps everyone

- Raise pot size (or above) with a high pair (two pair, set) when there are drawing hands on the board and very few over cards
- Call a half size pot bet (or less) with a flush draw or a two card str8 draw
- bluff for a 1/2 pot (or less) as we only need to be right once in 3 times for us to break even
- Calling a 3 BB raise pre-flop if both cards are J plus

Please correct and add yours
 
BionicApe

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Oh, good lord, none of the things you listed are inherently positive expected value. They are of marginal value even as rules of thumb (not sure they even rate that high).

Every action you take in poker affects expected value and that value is almost always an approximation when it can be determined at all.

You're on the right track, though.

You always want to be thinking in terms of expected value and if you're a tournament player you need to think at times both in terms of 'chip' expected value and 'real money' expected value.

You need to do some math, bro. Learning how to do expected value calculations should prove downright edifying.

Just a quick heads-up, though. A misunderstanding of the game of the magnitude you demonstrated with this question makes you a real hazard to an otherwise healthy bankroll.
 
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BionicApe

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Every action you take in life can be thought of in terms of expected value, as humans we have an enormous capacity to weigh pros and cons and convert units at whim.

Should I go out drinking with the boys or stay home with the wife tonight?

Do I really want to play fantasy football this year?

Coke or Pepsi?

All expected value.

Is it worthwhile, is it a good investment, is it a good wager? I gotta say, it's super convenient to be able to work in tangible units, as we do in poker. Not that I would trade life's intangibles if given a chance, but sometimes... yeah.

In any case, writing is plus EV for me, writing about poker more so, and if I can actually help someone out in the process I feel like I'm doing alright for the day.

Even if I'm getting trolled, I come out ahead. It's all about the gravy.
 
NCDaddy

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Hard endeavor here. I mean, you can have general rules of thumb that provide positive EV *USUALLY*....but this game is so situational and actions vary based on different circumstances. You really have to take each hand at a time and evaluate it on the go with those general rules of thumb....which you should be willing to deviate from at any time.
 
Vilgeoforc

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If only it were that simple, my friend. A list of ready-made solutions with a positive EV and you are the winner of the WCOOP.:rolleyes: And the size of the stacks, loose or tight opponents, aggressiveness or passivity, the strength of our hand, the chance of dropping the opponent on a bluff. And this is only part of the factors that will affect the EV of each individual hand.
 
BionicApe

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Well, the fundamental truth of poker is: it's not usually about EV in a vacuum, but relative EV and weighing risk.

Open jamming aces is always going to be +EV, safest way to play, but almost any other line is usually going to have a higher potential EV.
 
Stuey

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The aim of this thread is to compile the list of all positive EV plays / actions that we can take in Poker. Positive EV plays win us at Poker and it will be good to get the comprehensive list so that it helps everyone

- Raise pot size (or above) with a high pair (two pair, set) when there are drawing hands on the board and very few over cards
- Call a half size pot bet (or less) with a flush draw or a two card str8 draw
- Bluff for a 1/2 pot (or less) as we only need to be right once in 3 times for us to break even
- Calling a 3 BB raise pre-flop if both cards are J plus

Please correct and add yours

All this is a nonsense. What you're talking is complete sucker plays. You will never win money playing like you described. I suspect you need more learning for couple years just not to lose as much as you lose now.

You are so far off how to win that the whole thing is a joke.

Good Luck
 
BionicApe

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All this is a nonsense. What you're talking is complete sucker plays. You will never win money playing like you described. I suspect you need more learning for couple years just not to lose as much as you lose now.

You are so far off how to win that the whole thing is a joke.

Good Luck

Still not sure about the trollism, seems high, right?
 
darthdimsky

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I really like this attempt to list it down. Appears to be a very sincere attempt at a rule of thumb for folks who are starting out. Plus he's asked for corrections and additions.

- Raise pot size (or above) with a high pair (two pair, set) when there are drawing hands on the board and very few over cards

Is this to induce insta folds? If it's multiway and you have another person calling your pot sized bet. All of a sudden the pot odds favour opened ended straight flush draws for another person to get into the action. The more people involved, the harder it is to get them away. And on turn you'll be worried about a set that may have gotten the best of your top pair top kicker.

If heads up or 3 way even a 1/2 or 2/3rd pot will induce folds from tighter players as would a full pot sized bet in the right position and circumstances.

- Calling a 3 BB raise pre-flop if both cards are J plus

Depends on your stack size and how many lead before you. It'd be considered normal play if you call with lower pairs and more speculative hands if you have an BB >= 30 for e.g. in MTT play. If BB <=9 then you'll want to consider shoving on top with middling pairs depending on position and opponent type. I'll insta fold Ts if a nit raises from an EP with a very sizeable stack. At the same time shove the same hand from LP if the player is a LAG exploiting his big stack for the blinds with no one else involved yet.

These set of actions are also based on how I play as a TAG. But also varies greatly depending your play style and on the stage of a tourney you're playing (I only play MTTs).

Edit: If you conform to a set of rules all the time you run the risk of being exploited or missing out on good value in other situations. So you'll have to be really specific in what instances you'd recommend applying them and the reasoning behind it.
 
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kraemer

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this is way to simple... You cannot judge a hand by your whole cards only...

There is almost always a play that is the best with given whole cards in one situation but is the worst with the same cards in another...

Just look at your last point in your list. To me that looks like a perfect recipe for ending up with a dominated hand and just 3 outs to win the pot... I LOVE people that play like that. When I raise my AK they call with JK / QK off... very nice!

The thing is that You have to build this list for yourself. And You have to build it from the ground up again and again in every hand You play. That's why poker is hard! If You would get away with one list then we wouldnt have to build it here. It would be on sale on the internet... "Phil Helmuts list of +EV plays"... Now only $19.99!
 
TeUnit

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I think its very important to understand the villans range, aggression factor, etc to make what could be a very marginal ev play into a higher ev play. For example if you are playing a villan who is playing 40% of hands but is very fit or fold ....you probably dont need to jam to find out if they have a set.

The aim of this thread is to compile the list of all positive EV plays / actions that we can take in Poker. Positive EV plays win us at Poker and it will be good to get the comprehensive list so that it helps everyone

- Raise pot size (or above) with a high pair (two pair, set) when there are drawing hands on the board and very few over cards
- Call a half size pot bet (or less) with a flush draw or a two card str8 draw
- Bluff for a 1/2 pot (or less) as we only need to be right once in 3 times for us to break even
- Calling a 3 BB raise pre-flop if both cards are J plus

Please correct and add yours
 
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