Comment on My Hand Selection (Fixed-Limit)

I have tried to tighten up my game over the past few months. I like to play Fixed-Limit Poker because there's no such thing as No-Limit in the state of Colorado anyway. Please let me know what you think of these hands selection:

1. 88-AA
2. A10 (suited or unsuited) or Better.
3. Suited "High Cards (10-Value or Better)"
4. KJ (suited or unsuited) or Better.

I will see the Flop with these hands no matter what position I'm in. I know position is important, but I hate people light betting with A8 offsuit or JJ in early position and force me to fold my KQ offsuit which ends up being the winning hand. To save my sanity I've decided to gather a set of hands of which I can play in any position and withstand any pre-flop raises. I will see the Flop with these hands no matter what. After the flop it's a different story, but I believe my post flop skills are strong.

I also hate it when I see people limp in from early position and fold when someone raises after them. That just confuses me. They are basically wasting a bet by not following through to see the Flop. You rather fold Pre-Flop without wasting any money or follow through to see the flop. I just can't stand seeing people limp-in and than fold to a raise.

I would also play:

*22-AA (unraised SB) (defend if the BB raises)
*Offsuit "High Cards (10-Value or Better)" (unraised SB) (defend if the BB raises)

Hands I would raise with Pre-Flop:
1. AA (I will cap Pre-Flop with this hand given the option because it is the best hand Pre-Flop)
2. KK (I will raise if no one had raises before me. I will call a raise made before me)
3. QQ (I will raise if no one had raises before me. I will call a raise made before me)
4. AK (I will raise "in the SB" if no one had raised before me to push out the BB).

The reason I don't want to raise with any other hands is they are just drawing hands. AK suited or unsuited is a drawing hand and when you draw you will often miss. Also, you just don't get a lot of action when you hit. You raised Pre-Flop, they call you, they see an Ace of the Board and fold to your bet. I find myself losing more money than I win when I raise with hands like AQ suited or unsuited. Even with JJ it's not worth risking. It doesn't hit a set often enough and doesn't hold up as Top Pair often enough either. I would just call to see a cheap flop with it and continue from there.

Let me know what you guys think of my hand selections and please give me some tips to improve. I just want to become a better player and win some money at my local casino. LOL. Thank you in advance.

I know its been suggested in another thread of yours, but I would seriously consider buying a copy of "Small Stakes Hold'em" by Sklansky. Its an older book so its likely available pretty cheaply online. He goes into some depth about positional starting hands - way more than can easily be covered here.

A couple of opinions about the hands you've mentioned above.... Coming-up with a list of hands you'll play from anywhere may be fine, but it certainly isn't ideal. Perhaps an example would be best. Regarding pairs, you say you'll play 8-8 from any position. Well, if you are willing to play 8-8 UTG, consider a situation where you are on the button. Its folded around to you. You have 7-7. Are you really going to toss it? Simplistic example, I know, but the point is your range of hands should be more dynamic and be infleuenced by a number of factors, position being one, and not simply be a set of hands you'll play from anywhere.

Regarding your premium pairs, Q-Q+, I'd be 3-betting these almost always. You say you are willing to cap the betting with A-A, but are only calling raises with K-K, Q-Q. IMO you should generally be 3-betting these hands.

Again, there is WAY more to this topic. You could probably write a whole book about nothing but starting hand selection in limit hold'em since it is often the single biggest factor in whether you will be a winning limit player or not. There are other factors, obviously, but starting hand selection is critical to success.

Big_Rudy said:

I know its been suggested in another thread of yours, but I would seriously consider buying a copy of "Small Stakes Hold'em" by Sklansky. Its an older book so its likely available pretty cheaply online. He goes into some depth about positional starting hands - way more than can easily be covered here.

A couple of opinions about the hands you've mentioned above.... Coming-up with a list of hands you'll play from anywhere may be fine, but it certainly isn't ideal. Perhaps an example would be best. Regarding pairs, you say you'll play 8-8 from any position. Well, if you are willing to play 8-8 UTG, consider a situation where you are on the button. Its folded around to you. You have 7-7. Are you really going to toss it? Simplistic example, I know, but the point is your range of hands should be more dynamic and be infleuenced by a number of factors, position being one, and not simply be a set of hands you'll play from anywhere.

Regarding your premium pairs, Q-Q+, I'd be 3-betting these almost always. You say you are willing to cap the betting with A-A, but are only calling raises with K-K, Q-Q. IMO you should generally be 3-betting these hands.

Again, there is WAY more to this topic. You could probably write a whole book about nothing but starting hand selection in limit hold'em since it is often the single biggest factor in whether you will be a winning limit player or not. There are other factors, obviously, but starting hand selection is critical to success.

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Thanks a lot, man. I know what you mean by position, but those stuff confuses me too much. I just try to keep things simple. I would play 88 from UTG and would toss away 77 on the BTN not because 77 isn't strong. Both hands can miss their "Set" and have Overcards on the Board. I would only play 88-AA because I don't want to play too many hands. Most pairs are worthless if they don't hit their "Set".

They say you should only play about 10%-15% of your hands. With my hands selection I find myself playing about 10%-20% of my hands.

3 betting with KK and QQ is not a bad idea.

In general I think Pre-Flop is the hardest part in any given poker hands. With only 2 cards you only have 29% of your total hand. In fixed-limit raising Pre-Flop doesn't really scare anyone even at $30/$60.

I always try to see the Flop cheaply with strong hands unless I have AA, KK, or QQ. Only a Fool wouldn't raise with these hands. You already have strong ground to stand on. I'm always reluctant with QQ because an Aces or King can easily fall on the Board, but still I have to raise Pre-Flop. But hands like AK suited is still a drawing hand.

I've downloaded the Book you mentioned and is giving it a read. I will practice some stuff mentioned of pokerstars play money before I take it to the Casino.

PoisonSaint said:

Thanks a lot, man.

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No problem, I always enjoy talking about limit hold'em. Too bad its appeal is, well, limited these days.

PoisonSaint said:

I know what you mean by position, but those stuff confuses me too much. I just try to keep things simple. I would play 88 from UTG and would toss away 77 on the BTN not because 77 isn't strong. Both hands can miss their "Set" and have Overcards on the Board. I would only play 88-AA because I don't want to play too many hands. Most pairs are worthless if they don't hit their "Set".

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Again, just the basics but the thinking is.... If you have 8-8 UTG and you play it, then you have a lot of players to act after you who may either just call your bet, or even raise you. In any event, you're going to be stuck playing a hand that is unlikely to improve against a flop that will almost certainly contain overcards and with likely several players who have position on you. Not a good situation.

In contrast, the 7-7 hand in my (admittedly unlikely) scenario that it is folded around to you on the button things are totally different. Here you will have position on both of your opponents throughout the hand. And to that the fact that you have a middling pair pre-flop v. 2 opponents at most, both of whom you have position on so that you are better able to control pot size. Also, assuming that neither of them already has a pair, each one is only going to improve to a pair on the flop about 1 time in 3.

In this case 7-7 > 8-8.

PoisonSaint said:

I've downloaded the Book you mentioned and is giving it a read. I will practice some stuff mentioned of PokerStars play money before I take it to the Casino.

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It really is a quality book. All this talk about limit poker has caused me to pull it off my shelf and skim through it again myself. In fact, when I play live poker I generally still play limit since I don't really have the necessary bankroll to be properly rolled for even the lowest no limit game that is typically spread at my casino. I still play no-limit there, but its more of a one-off, take a shot type of thing. My bankroll for live poker does allow me to comfortably play limit though, so that's where I spend probably 80% of my time.

A word about the play money practice thing. Good idea provided your practice is properly directed. I'd use my practice time to work on what hands I should be playing from where and practice this in the play money situations. What I wouldn't do is worry about the results/outcome of your play there. It's play money and people don't play, generally, as they would if even a small amount of money were in play.

I have a couple of comments to make here. The first is about you wanting to try out play money first. I think to learn the basics of the game that is fine. But dont make ANY starting hand requirement decisions based on what you experience in play money play. Just dont base any strategy on what you experience in play money games at all.

I know of a small stakes holdem by Sklansky, IDK if it is the same one mentioned by Rudy above, but the one I know is geared toward limit holdem, and not no limit, so make sure your book is about the game you want. I assume you play nlhe.

If you are only playing play money now, then you will certainly be starting off in micro stakes when you move on to money games. Blaykrain79, a micro stakes coach at Drag The Bar, has a book called "Crushing the Micros" and I would strongly suggest you check it out. It covers all the basics such as Starting Hands, Position, etc. and also more intermediate topics like 3 + 4 betting, c betting and so on.

Good luck.

fletchdad said:

I know of a small stakes holdem by Sklansky, IDK if it is the same one mentioned by Rudy above, but the one I know is geared toward limit holdem, and not no limit, so make sure your book is about the game you want. I assume you play nlhe.

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Nope. he's playing limit as discussed above. A few of us degens DO still play that game ya know . I stand by my book recommendation. At one time it was THE book for limit hold'em. It's dated now, but as far as I know there isn't a lot of new stuff out there for LIMIT hold'em.

Regarding practicing at the play money tables, maybe I didn't explain what I meant properly. My concept (could be faulty) is to use the play money tables GUIDED BY THE SKLANSKY HAND CHARTS to determine what is a playable hand from where. Kind of use the play money tables as a "quiz" if you will, to see if you've got a pretty good grasp of the type of starting hands you should play from what position. Beyond that, play money tables aren't going to be too helpful as they play, generally, nothing like the real thing.

fletchdad said:

If you are only playing play money now, then you will certainly be starting off in micro stakes when you move on to money games. Blaykrain79, a micro stakes coach at Drag The Bar, has a book called "Crushing the Micros" and I would strongly suggest you check it out. It covers all the basics such as Starting Hands, Position, etc. and also more intermediate topics like 3 + 4 betting, c betting and so on.

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OK, its up to you of course, but I would totally disregard this recommendation. I assume Fletch made it based on the faulty assumption that you will be playing No-Limit, online poker. As we have discussed you'll actually be playing LIVE, LIMIT HOLD'EM. This book will be worse than useless to you. It is geared to online, small stakes, no-limit hold'em and, I believe, also centers on 6-max play (could be wrong about that last bit though). Anyways its WORLDS apart from what you'll be encountering playing live, limit hold'em.

Yea, my bad. I didnt see the LIMIT in the title (Was it there before?, whew, I am getting blind) So, yea disregard my comments, as they pertain to nlhe.

Sorry, I must be gettin old.....

But, the book I mentioned is mainly geared to FR....... (Not much of a save for me tho.......

fletchdad said:

Yea, my bad. I didnt see the LIMIT in the title (Was it there before?, whew, I am getting blind) So, yea disregard my comments, as they pertain to nlhe.

Sorry, I must be gettin old.....

But, the book I mentioned is mainly geared to FR....... (Not much of a save for me tho.......

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Just figured you hadn't "woken-up" yet . Anyway us limit players ARE becoming an endangered species, but there are still a few of us out there.

"I like to play Fixed-Limit Poker because there's no such thing as No-Limit in the state of Colorado anyway."
"You could probably write a whole book about nothing but starting hand selection in limit hold'em since it is often the single biggest factor in whether you will be a winning limit player or not."
"In fixed-limit raising Pre-Flop doesn't really scare anyone even at $30/$60."

"All this talk about limit poker has caused me to pull it off my shelf and skim through it again myself. In fact, when I play live poker I generally still play limit since I don't really have the necessary bankroll to be properly rolled for even the lowest no limit game that is typically spread at my casino. I still play no-limit there, but its more of a one-off, take a shot type of thing. My bankroll for live poker does allow me to comfortably play limit though, so that's where I spend probably 80% of my time."

and then, "I assume you play nlhe."
COME ON, MAN!

fletchdad said:

Yea, my bad. I didnt see the LIMIT in the title (Was it there before?, whew, I am getting blind) So, yea disregard my comments, as they pertain to nlhe.

Sorry, I must be gettin old.....

But, the book I mentioned is mainly geared to FR....... (Not much of a save for me tho.......

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When I began playing at my local casino 4 years ago limit games were only available . they didnt allow NL until a couple years later NL was introduced and now in the poker room play its almost impossible to find a limit table . Everyone wants to play NL holdem rather than limit holdem.
The style of play also has changed with NL stragety, "fishes" who have the pot odds to call flop, turn and river bets did well. however being a "fish" is a loser in the NL game.

MediaBLITZ said:

and then, "I assume you play nlhe."
COME ON, MAN!

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Hmm, seems I am not the only one answering before reading all the content..........

fletchdad said:

Hmm, seems I am not the only one answering before reading all the content..........

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Yeah, I guess people are having a hard time with the concept that there are still a few of us limit players out there. Come on people. We are talking LIVE LIMIT HOLD'EM here.... the Yugo of poker .

Big_Rudy said:

Yeah, I guess people are having a hard time with the concept that there are still a few of us limit players out there. Come on people. We are talking LIVE LIMIT HOLD'EM here.... the Yugo of poker .

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You're right, Rudy. In Colorado the max money you can bet is $100. There is no such thing as NLHE here. At the Ameristar, the biggest Casino in Colorado right now for Poker, there's actually more Fixed-Limit table playing at a time during the weekends than No Limit. This is why I want to master Fixed-Limit. My comptetition at the Casino at the $30/$60 limit is actually easier than my PokerStars play money in some ways too. For explain, very few players chase you down to the River with Middle Pair and hope to hit. It does happen at the $4/$8 limit a lot though. there's definitely still Limit players around.

Rudy, can you also comment of my Thread:
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/when-leave-table-205499/

I think you're an experience player and would like to get some advise from you. One thing that kept kicking me in the a** is not leaving the table when I'm ahead. In the thread are some reasons why I would leave a table.

In addition to what's on the Thread, I also will leave the table if I go the first 3 orbits without a playable or winning hand. I don't know about you, but my luck start right when I sit down. If I have to go 3 orbits without a winning hand I will cash out and get back on the waiting list. When I get seated at the table I always wait for the Big Blind to start.

I was actually successful with this method the past few days. I usually end up leaving the table with 5-10BB profits. At the end of the day I add them up to be over 20BB. I came up with these reasons to leave the table so that I don't have to sit at a table for hours. It takes an hour to just deal 3 orbits with dealers change and such. Sitting in the same seat for 2-3 hours just wears you out or put you on Tilt.

I want to know what you think of my table leaving methods and let me know when you would leave a table. What would you do if you know that you're running bad and just can't get up because you still believe that your winning hand is just around the corner? Those kind of stuffs.

Your selection of hands seems rather predictable, but still they are solid. Although i can't say you will profit since poker is mostly a game where you have to read your opponents hand. If you are a slightly inexperienced player, then of course, you should play the top 15 starting hands to gain an edge. Limit poker is a game where u want to have either the top 15 hands or suited connecters of all ranges. Good luck!