chasing draws

steveiam

steveiam

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I have played about 20 tourneys over the last week with buyins up to $10. The trend seems to be if they have hit a draw on the flop and need one card to complete the draw they will call not matter how bad the pot odds are..Is this how it is now or am I missing something ?
 
Beanfacekilla

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I have played about 20 tourneys over the last week with buyins up to $10. The trend seems to be if they have hit a draw on the flop and need one card to complete the draw they will call not matter how bad the pot odds are..Is this how it is now or am I missing something ?

Yeah that's pretty much how it is.

I had top two the other day on a guarantee MTT, and I bet full pot, and a guy shoves on me. I call, and he rolls over A-8 of clubs. He didn't even have a pair. Just all in on the draw. Of course he turns his flush.

People will do this open ended also. The good thing is the don't hit all the time. They mostly check call all the way to river, and if they miss, they fold. It is frustrating though for sure.
 
ScottieDuncan

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Seems like when I get in this situation, I always loose. I just about quit playing like this unless I have large BR.
 
quintass

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I only chase if the "cost is low and the catch is almost unbeatable". The only other times I chase is after 5 or 6 Baileys on the rocks! :eek:
 
steveiam

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So raising to stop people chasing draws is a waste of time and chips..you might as well wait until the river before raising.
 
quintass

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So raising to stop people chasing draws is a waste of time and chips..you might as well wait until the river before raising.

No not really, a high raise of say 4-5X the BB just might push someone off a mediocre hand. But if you're up against something like AA,KK then it's not likely they'll drop so easily, unless you push all in.
 
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So raising to stop people chasing draws is a waste of time and chips..you might as well wait until the river before raising.


According to Sklansky when everytime someone calls without odds you win. It is plus EV. You are better off having them call without odds then for them to fold

With tourney strategy if they are going to have odds and call you may want to wait for the river and play with a read
 
Yoshimiii

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I have played about 20 tourneys over the last week with buyins up to $10. The trend seems to be if they have hit a draw on the flop and need one card to complete the draw they will call not matter how bad the pot odds are..Is this how it is now or am I missing something ?

Ye this is because of the large player pool for low buy in tourneys with weak players, and tbh this is great for you, to counter this just do not bluff at all at the start of the tourney until most of the donks have been eliminated and just bet all your value hands for 3/4 pot - full size pot on the flop and turn and re-evaluate the river to see if your hand is strong enough to bet again. If the draw gets there then be cautious if you think that's what he was chasing.
 
Indian Givah

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This week for me had been never ending torture with this shit. Every time they make their flush on the river after calling 2/3+ the pot the whole way, then I end up checking/folding. Idk eventually it'll off in my cash games though.
 
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So raising to stop people chasing draws is a waste of time and chips..you might as well wait until the river before raising.

Wait, why would you not raise? What if they don't hit? They'll lose more than half the time if they're calling with a draw. Shouldn't you bet so you take cash off em when they don't hit?

Seems to me like it's a good idea to bet cuz if you don't bet till the river, you won't make any cash off em except the money in the pot before the flop.
 
steveiam

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Wait, why would you not raise? What if they don't hit? They'll lose more than half the time if they're calling with a draw. Shouldn't you bet so you take cash off em when they don't hit?

Seems to me like it's a good idea to bet cuz if you don't bet till the river, you won't make any cash off em except the money in the pot before the flop.
I think my mind set over the last couple of weeks has been wrong on this because they seem to hit the flush nearly every time. I know you should raise to make them pay but when confidence is low you tend to take the conservative approach which is wrong overall.
 
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I have played about 20 tourneys over the last week with buyins up to $10. The trend seems to be if they have hit a draw on the flop and need one card to complete the draw they will call not matter how bad the pot odds are..Is this how it is now or am I missing something ?

This is what make tournaments so profitable - the play is so bad you can print money. You want them calling all their draws, regardless of if they get there or not.

So raising to stop people chasing draws is a waste of time and chips..you might as well wait until the river before raising.

It's not. I understand your frustration but point of the matter is - if you bet and don't give them correct odds to make the call profitable you're WINNING, not them, regardless of what the river comes. IF you're making profitable bet sizing and they are making the incorrect calls; there is only one real winner.

If you stop betting until the river, I guarantee you will be losing a lot more over the long haul.

Short term is irrelevant and one hand especially.

I think my mind set over the last couple of weeks has been wrong on this because they seem to hit the flush nearly every time. I know you should raise to make them pay but when confidence is low you tend to take the conservative approach which is wrong overall.

This is called selective memory. It's easy to remember all the beats and runner,runner flush draws they hit. Try something like jotting down each and every uncontested pot or the hands they miss their draws on and try remember those rather than the beats.

Tally it all up; I bet you have a TON more times they miss as opposed to hit no matter what you think :)

GL
 
steveiam

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This is what make tournaments so profitable - the play is so bad you can print money. You want them calling all their draws, regardless of if they get there or not.



It's not. I understand your frustration but point of the matter is - if you bet and don't give them correct odds to make the call profitable you're WINNING, not them, regardless of what the river comes. IF you're making profitable bet sizing and they are making the incorrect calls; there is only one real winner.

If you stop betting until the river, I guarantee you will be losing a lot more over the long haul.

Short term is irrelevant and one hand especially.



This is called selective memory. It's easy to remember all the beats and runner,runner flush draws they hit. Try something like jotting down each and every uncontested pot or the hands they miss their draws on and try remember those rather than the beats.

Tally it all up; I bet you have a TON more times they miss as opposed to hit no matter what you think :)

GL

Good advice. thx..
 
snklzona

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Had a player on my left other day in a 250 gtd PLO...must have chased and hit 14 or 15 flushes before luckily our table broke up but come on in PLO flushes 35% of the time in are worthless...so like you said I quit raising and now he is raising with his draws...which I guess worked out cause he probably chased me out of some hands I shouldn't have been in anyway...gl

EDIT: 35% was completely pulled out from my backside but would imagine that is pretty close...
 
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I totally agree with the last post in this case. IF you have the person down to a draw, you're going to win more often then not. Hopefully you can read out when these situations are. I'm always glad to see that I made the correct play and that I'm ahead of my opponent.

Edit: I mean two posts before the one I'm after.
 
DaReKa

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This week for me had been never ending torture with this shit. Every time they make their flush on the river after calling 2/3+ the pot the whole way, then I end up checking/folding. Idk eventually it'll off in my cash games though.

I think even if a draw you suspect completes, you should bet, they don't necessarily have that draw, but if you check the river you are asking for a shove; they know you won't call because you made it obvious that you think they caught their draw. I think bet and fold to a shove is better most of the time. Might be wrong here, I dunno...
 
steveiam

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Just a final note on this. lost heads up to a flush draw hitting on the river tonight ..lol
 
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I've literally heard guys justify their bad calls saying things like "Hey, I only needed one card to hit a straight" - explaining why they called a pot sized bet on the turn with a gut-shot straight draw.

It's little consolation for you now, but you have undoubtedly won more pots than you lost by making appropriate bets and knocking players off their draws. You just don't remember them because you never see their cards.
 
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