Card Dead in Tourneys

There's getting unlucky, and then there's just running bad all the time...Now If I say I run bad all the time (Sounds Like I'm complaining/whining/crying, W/E)...Now If I say I'm getting unlucky, it's still the same thing but I'm getting enough hands to just be Content with and there-fore must be my problem that I can't fold certain hands and/or I'm getting to Committed with the hands when I should be folding them (Many things are possible correct)....

Now My Question is this, what do you do when your really just Card dead? I mean when your getting hands like 49/25/34/59/A2/K3/ So forth and so on? Now Many ppl here will say (Well Steal more), Now lets add in the Fact that the table is Beyond Ubber Aggressive+always a Raise preflop (BTW, it's a Micro buy-in)....Now would your answer still be Steal More?


Now I just want to know what do you all do when your in a game and your not getting Cards+Every hand there's a Raise+loose calling players on the table with massive stacks...

like most tournaments, you lose.

baudib1 said:

like most tournaments, you lose.

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But I'm wondering is there nothing we can do at times like this? Or are we more or less confined to the cards we are dealt...I mean when ppl win tournaments it's a combination of things which lead to there win, same rule applies when ppl lose tournaments correct? So if all we're really hoping for is good cards all the time (Then speaking honestly), some ppl must run amazingly correct to win big tourneys all the time, correct? Yet this thought applies that these ppl only play there cards, and this thought actually takes away from there skill....So if there's no skill in poker then that means that we only play our cards, and that it's all luck (Yet we all know that can't be correct)? So Let me rephrase my original question, what can we do to combat dry spells (during a tourney)? Should we be calling more loosely pre, should we just still wait and be patient? What is the best way to combat these times in a tourney when the blinds are really high up there? Or when your close to the money, or if you just happen to go an entire game like this

although its not very good advice since I don't really play tournament but

Try to 3 or 4 bet pre flop in position, if your folding all the time your range the opponents give you will be a lot better than the range they open with. If you pick to do this in pretty raised pots (Like one bet, one call, then you just 3 bet) you can build your stack without even going to showdown because your opponents fold equity is very high.

Although this may not be the best way to think of this but think of it like this

continue being card dead and go out later with no cash or try to make money regardless of your cards.

I would suggest doing this in position, and against people who are more on the loose end then the tight end.

(just my thoughts)

prepare said:

although its not very good advice since I don't really play tournament but

Try to 3 or 4 bet pre flop in position, if your folding all the time your range the opponents give you will be a lot better than the range they open with. If you pick to do this in pretty raised pots (Like one bet, one call, then you just 3 bet) you can build your stack without even going to showdown because your opponents fold equity is very high.

Although this may not be the best way to think of this but think of it like this

continue being card dead and go out later with not cash or try to make money regardless of your cards.

I would suggest doing this in position, and against people who are more on the loose end then the tight end.

(just my thoughts)

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It's good advice, but Just curious why against Loose players? Should we not do this against Tight Players? I mean a loose player any sort of Rag Flop helps them+Any sort of board which really looks good for us would possibly be good for them also correct? So against a Tight Player we can somewhat narrow there range down abit correct, so would this not be good against tight players rather then loose players?

i have been thinking about this too.
watching players, being patient, but never getting a hand
i think this is where your table 'image' comes in.
if you have been folding a lot players will perceive you
as tight
so if you raise atc you will get respect.(depending on stakes).
micro - play the cards
higher limits - play the player
my 2c

If your looking to go to a flop then Yes, a tight player would be better since you know what their playing.

But your not, ever. If you do this play when your card dead then almost every time your going to a flop your behind, which is something that's not that good for you. Doesn't matter who really calls you because even most loose people don't call 3 bets just for the heck of it.

So pre flop, its more likely for a loose player to be holding worse cards than the tight player which makes it easier for him to fold.

Post flop you are in a negative ev situation cards wise if the flop doesn't hit you well with lesser fold equity from your opponent. Which means that you don't want to go to the flop which means your trying to target people who play worse card pre flop so the fold to you, which means that going for loose players that will call an opening bet with suited connectors or something of that sort who can not call a re raise which is your best bet at building your stack.

then again, if you play well post flop (something I need work on) then you could try to make it to the flop which would mean that you could try to do this against tight players.

There is absolutely no one who wins most tournaments.

Even if you get all-in pre with a dominant hand vs. someone who has you covered every time, you will lose most tournaments. Even if you get good cards and play perfectly, you will lose most of the time.


There's absolutely nothing you can do if you get J2o 93o 72 Q5 for 120 hands or so.

Obviously when the blinds get high and you're shortstacked, you have to pick spots where you still have fold equity and try to get it in. First-in vigorish, etc.

Probably the most crucial factor is to try to avoid getting to that stage of the tournament with a short stack. Chip up or bust early.

naruto_miu said:

It's good advice, but Just curious why against Loose players? Should we not do this against Tight Players? I mean a loose player any sort of Rag Flop helps them+Any sort of board which really looks good for us would possibly be good for them also correct? So against a Tight Player we can somewhat narrow there range down abit correct, so would this not be good against tight players rather then loose players?

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If you are card dead it is verry likely you will loose. First you have to isolate that loose player and after that you have to overplay him so that he folds. Trying to isolate some TAG player with garbage is like trying to hang yourself. This may work at lower lvls where you can afford to loose some BBs. When the blinds rise you will probabely not afford to try to isolate someone with garbage because there will be stacks lot bigger than yours. To get ITM in a tournament you have to be lucky even if your are getting your stack in with best odds all the time.
You are a good tournament player and you know that to get ITM is not enough just to play your best poker. Even when you get cards most of the time you struggle to get ITM. When you do not get them it is just a matter of time untill you are busted because blufing is one of the most important weapons in poker and you will not have the stack big enough for that after some lvls.

I have read a few comments and everyone keeps talking about table image. Micro game, table image is non existent. So When card dead and there is TOO much action, Call you blinds.

Sounds tough I know, but you must think this pot odd wise sometimes. Lets say 6 players are Hyper Agrressive. Your in the BB with J7d. UTG x3 and 3 others call and you are next to call.

Yes this is a bad hand, Yes this is usually a fold. But the players are playing to agressively, to hyper, so they will have just a bad if not worse range as you as well.

So calling your BB and SB more often is actually not so bad here because you are calling 2BB to win 12 ( not including antes or SB )

Sometimes you have to take into account of the odds the pot is giving you. We allways call a Short stacks all in with ATC when it is 1-3 BB ( Well your sopose to ) And you are not even getting the best pot odds, however thats another topic.

So when Dead. Play your blinds more. Obviously if there is a raise, RR RRR then fold. You still gata be observant.

Stealing more is hard when the table is active, I know I been were you have. I am a tight player. You have to be in MTTs Dont care what anyone says. Very few Hyper players do well.

So steal of course when you can. But do not always do it from the button, cut off, Try the SB more, it is bad position, but at the same time people ( competent players) know that no one wants to play the SB so if someone IS, they should know it must be a good hand to play.

hope this helps

I cant stand this either or getting near ITM and I kind of stall until Im in but this is my dilemma, I get down to about the last point that I can push all in to at least make people think before calling. I run into problems like I want to steal but the dude in the last hand that was low just pushed all in so If I do it one hand later, someone will call. I understand the 10bb rule but I also find that waiting below the 10bb level for the right hand usually pays me off better but Im get in this spell of just folding and waiting and then Im like so How wide do I open my range, do I raise in late pos with ATC or at least semi good ATC. Plus cause of blinds I dont have many hands I can just 3xbb raise with, I got to either limp or push.

I dont even know if Im making sense but if i do get ITM Im usually not riding a very healthy chip stack from there but I have finally made a decision, I think Im in these to win and not just take min win back. this has made the game much more fun, as before I would wait until I was ITM the money and sometimes getting those last 3 people out, you end up blinding up 1/3 of your stack if you wait, but there are too many good arguments to push more and good arguments to tighten it up even more. and I usually pick the wrong one LOL

attack nits and medium stacks on the bubble.

If he makes it to the bubble Remember its a hyper table. So too much action.

darkassassin89 said:

Lets say 6 players are Hyper Agrressive. Your in the BB with J7d. UTG x3 and 3 others call and you are next to call.

Yes this is a bad hand, Yes this is usually a fold. But the players are playing to agressively, to hyper, so they will have just a bad if not worse range as you as well.

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Huh? How do ya figure they're hyper-aggressive (to hyper) when they're all just calling a raise? (that's 'aggressive'? wtf?)

dan abnormal said:

I dont even know if Im making sense

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No

Poker Orifice said:

Huh? How do ya figure they're hyper-aggressive (to hyper) when they're all just calling a raise? (that's 'aggressive'? wtf?)

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was just making a pot odds example sheesh get off my nutz

As kinda stated already, you play enough tourneys, you get the card dead phase. It goes back and forth. I had 4 tourneys running once and had AA, AKs, KK and (I think, deleted the pic) AKo, AT THE SAME TIME!!. I posted a SS here. I have had AA back to back. Fist pumping time..... Then the next day I get, 25o, 37o, T2o, 49o, bla, bla.....

I think baudib1 said it best. You lose. It suks, but wat u gonna do?

darkassassin89 said:

was just making a pot odds example sheesh get off my nutz

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Bad example. Real bad advise too (but didn't bother to mention b4)

Poker Orifice said:

Bad example. Real bad advise too (but didn't bother to mention b4)

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Get off his nutz, sheeesh!

Put it this way. If your in a MTT and you get aces and shove and get called by KK you win most of the time. If you then get aces the very next hand and get it all in against 10's you win most of the time. Next hand you get Aces again and get it in vs nines most of the time you'll win. However to run deep you have to win all three of those hands. The chances of winning against an underpair 3 times when you don't look at each event independantly it's pretty much a coin flip and thats if you have a hand that can't be dominated. Add hands like AK, KK and QQ into that as well and it's pretty easy to see why nobody runs deep every single tourney.

Poker Orifice said:

Bad example. Real bad advise too (but didn't bother to mention b4)

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Get off his nutz, sheeesh!

Incidentally it's advice, not advise

I've folded 60 hands in a row before, yeah it sucks but you never want to get too impatient. Saying that, you don't want to fold your way out of the tournament.

cardriverx said:

I've folded 60 hands in a row before, yeah it sucks but you never want to get too impatient. Saying that, you don't want to fold your way out of the tournament.

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I'm talking about 2+Hours worth of nothing but folding...I understand what most ppl said in here though also

F4STFORW4RD said:

Get off his nutz, sheeesh!

Incidentally it's advice, not advise

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Thanks for 'advising' me of this.
Sorry.. not gonna bs.. if I see what I consider to be 'real bad advice' I will say so.