Can't stop tilting

Hello Cardschat. This is my first thread/post on this forum and I hope someday I will be able to help others if I manage to be good enough in poker.

I have been playing poker for just under a year and have lost quite a lot of money. I recently took a 3 month break and came back to poker and realised that nothings changed.

I believe I am a good player however I have a huge problem with tilt. I never managed to get a hand sample bigger than 1000 hands as during the 1000 hands I would have lost a couple of BI due to foolishness and then tilted the rest of my BR off.

I made an account on this forum mainly to get help with my tilt issues. I know what BRM and I use a 30bi rule for 2NL but never stuck to it when I tilt I just lose the rest in 1 or 2 sng's/


I am starting to believe that I should just give up but I want to give poker 1 last try. I am going to deposit 50$ on the 1st of January 2013 of which I will convert 10$ into another currency on pokerstars and leave 40$ (20BI) to play 2NL.

I think I will be playing either 2 or 4 tables and all I want to accomplish is to get a 10k hand sample while keeping a positive balance (at least 1 cent profit). If I did accomplish this I would be the happiest person in the world. This would mean that I can manage to control my emotions. At this point I don't even think about making money in poker but I get so furious when donks float me with AK or AJ while i'm showing aggression and they hit that magic A on the river.

However, if I lose the 40$ I will use the other 10$ to give 180/360 man sng's (10cents) a chance and see how they go.

Can anyone give me any advice on controlling my emotions/tilt? This is something I've been working on for the past year which does show that it's really bad for me.

Just went through this not that long ago I could not stop tilting and just playing mad ... well you need to take about a week off. Allow your self to re gain control of your emotions and clear your head. 9 out of 10 times that will help your tilting from bad beats. If you just cant stop out of boredom then you need to work your patience. Just some advice from someone who has been there.

If youve only been playing for under a year and your hand sample size is under 1,000 its impossible to know if your good at poker.. Tilting could be just one of MANY leaks in your game.. Im not trying to be mean im just saying maybe you should try looking at other aspects of your game as well as Tilt.. Ive been playing poker for around 5 years and always thought i was real good until i recently started looking at my game and studying strategies and realized how many stupid leaks i had.. You've definitely taken a step in the right direction by joining CC because ive been a member for a little over a month and the information ive obtained in that TINY amount of time has completely transformed my game... Keep your head up.. and dont ever be happy with just being "good" at poker you can always get better

Hello and welcome to CC.

I would like to offer my $0.02.

If you are going to play poker seriously, you have to stop letting your emotions govern your behavior. You realizing you tilt is definitely a step in the right direction. However, as domeburgler said, you may have other leaks as well.

But quite simply, if you can't manage your emotions, you won't be able to profit playing poker. I have been where you are. I used to tilt like that also.

You are the master of your own fate. If you want your game to improve, eliminate tilt. All it takes is willpower.

After you have done this, continue to work on the rest of your game.

Poker is about making the right decisions. Variance is an issue. There will be floating with A-K. There will be times when you get outdrawn. Conversely, there will be times when you outdraw others. This is a part of poker, and you must accept it. You can't allow yourself to go on tilt and flush your BR when you get sucked out.

Next time you think you are tilted, get control of yourself, or stop playing. That is what you need to do to succeed. What is the goal of you playing poker? Remember the answers to this question next time you find yourself tilting.

Make the correct decision every time, regardless of your emotions. No one is capable of doing this 100%, but the closer we come, the better we get at poker.

First of all, thank you all for the help. I think I will give poker 1 last chance. I will give myself a break till January and I will deposit 160$ which is what I won by betting on sports last week. I will split it in 4 which will give me 4x 20bi for 2NL. This will be the last deposit and last 4 times I will attempt poker.

I will be aiming to get a win rate of at least 1bb/100 over a decent hand sample. Is this a good target? I want to be able to beat the micros and not crush them.

Let me know what you think.

Also, I was just wondering what kind of winrates people at 600nl or 1knl have? do they play 3 or 5bb/100 or do they aim for 1 or 2bb/100?

I don't want an exact answer as everyone plays differently but an estimate would be good enough.

Thanks

Beanfacekilla said:

Hello and welcome to CC.

I would like to offer my $0.02.

If you are going to play poker seriously, you have to stop letting your emotions govern your behavior. You realizing you tilt is definitely a step in the right direction. However, as domeburgler said, you may have other leaks as well.

But quite simply, if you can't manage your emotions, you won't be able to profit playing poker. I have been where you are. I used to tilt like that also.

You are the master of your own fate. If you want your game to improve, eliminate tilt. All it takes is willpower.

After you have done this, continue to work on the rest of your game.

Poker is about making the right decisions. Variance is an issue. There will be floating with A-K. There will be times when you get outdrawn. Conversely, there will be times when you outdraw others. This is a part of poker, and you must accept it. You can't allow yourself to go on tilt and flush your BR when you get sucked out.

Next time you think you are tilted, get control of yourself, or stop playing. That is what you need to do to succeed. What is the goal of you playing poker? Remember the answers to this question next time you find yourself tilting.

Make the correct decision every time, regardless of your emotions. No one is capable of doing this 100%, but the closer we come, the better we get at poker.

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Next time I will play I will set myself an objective to play for example 10 thousand hands. I have never done that before without blowing my bankroll (didn't even get to over 1000 hands) and then I will happy enough to try and beat 2NL.

domeburglar said:

If youve only been playing for under a year and your hand sample size is under 1,000 its impossible to know if your good at poker.. Tilting could be just one of MANY leaks in your game.. Im not trying to be mean im just saying maybe you should try looking at other aspects of your game as well as Tilt.. Ive been playing poker for around 5 years and always thought i was real good until i recently started looking at my game and studying strategies and realized how many stupid leaks i had.. You've definitely taken a step in the right direction by joining CC because ive been a member for a little over a month and the information ive obtained in that TINY amount of time has completely transformed my game... Keep your head up.. and dont ever be happy with just being "good" at poker you can always get better

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Yeah I know I might not be the best at poker but from what I have seen I think I am able to beat (not crush) at least 2NL (haven't tried playing any other stakes within bankroll) I am 100% sure that I have leaks as I can see but I'm not yet sure what they are.

I know that I am able to beat 2NL as every time I play the first 500 hands I am making good, profitable decisions until that one suck out and then I tilt.

Bonghead said:

Just went through this not that long ago I could not stop tilting and just playing mad ... well you need to take about a week off. Allow your self to re gain control of your emotions and clear your head. 9 out of 10 times that will help your tilting from bad beats. If you just cant stop out of boredom then you need to work your patience. Just some advice from someone who has been there.

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It's not out of boredom but by getting mad that people who play so badly manage to suck out on you. I know it might only be the 1 hand that it worked for them but that 1 hand vs me makes me feel that they are better then me and so I tilt.

DavidC17 said:

Also, I was just wondering what kind of winrates people at 600nl or 1knl have? do they play 3 or 5bb/100 or do they aim for 1 or 2bb/100?

I don't want an exact answer as everyone plays differently but an estimate would be good enough.

Click to expand...

I really hope this is a curiosity question? You need to be focusing on how to make improvements to your game here and now, not how much money can be made at 1k NL. Having a distant goal CAN be motivational, but it can also leech your productivity, as it will have you daydreaming instead of focusing on improving your game.

DavidC17 said:

It's not out of boredom but by getting mad that people who play so badly manage to suck out on you. I know it might only be the 1 hand that it worked for them but that 1 hand vs me makes me feel that they are better then me and so I tilt.

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The biggest point in what you're saying here is something you may not have thought of before. Variance happens in poker. Often, it is that "ONE HAND" as you call it that allows bad players to think they are good players, and keeps them interested. Or sometimes poor players believe poker is mostly luck, and they don't realize they are losing much, MUCH more often than they are winning.

In addition, why would one hand cause you to think another player is better than you, if that player had to hit an unlikely card to win the hand? This simply doesn't make sense, and you should convince yourself why this is so. It may seem silly, but building up logic bases like this will help you immensely when beginning to feel tilt:

- "Fish only keep playing because they get lucky. Therefore they must get lucky against me sometimes for me to make money on them in the long run."

or

- "This player had an X% chance of losing this hand when all the money got in, and he got lucky by hitting that card. I know I played the hand well, and that's all I have control over."

Realizing that you can't control variance, but that you have a lot of power to control other factors is an enormous part of eliminating tilt for a lot of people imo. The root of MOST tilt (again, imho) comes from a lack of understanding of variance. Believing you can beat a given player any time, in any situation. Believing you will consistently win, just because you are playing well. Etc. The list goes on.

While yes, willpower is important for eliminating tilt, I think there are some helpful resources out there too. Jared Tendler's "Mental Game of Poker" is a great book that focuses on tilt in poker, and not just how to control it when it happens, but how to lessen it's total impact on you. I also found Tommy Angelo's "Eightfold Path to Poker Enlightenment" to be a phenomenal series. I'd also recommend searching 2p2 for Concept of the Week posts on stress management and tilt. And just learn all you can about variance. [link removed ~tb] is a great site for exploring variance in poker. Sometimes just screwing around with the variance simulator there helps me feel better about a downswing I'm having, or just reminds me of the impact of variance in poker.

Wow, guess I ended up writing a monster post there. I personally went through a bit of a mental game revamping, which is mostly documented on another forum. If you're interested in looking at it, send me a PM and I'll give you the link.

Before I let this get any longer... Welcome to CC!!

DavidC17 said:

I will be aiming to get a win rate of at least 1bb/100 over a decent hand sample. Is this a good target? I want to be able to beat the micros and not crush them.

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IMO you shouldnt set a specific winrate goal.. I think you should just focus on playing good solid poker and making the right decisions.. Otherwise your gunna be constantly checking your winrate and if its not where u want it to be say after 1,000 hands it could easily tilt you..

since youve said youve had problems in the past of playin outside ur BR when ur tilted.. Anger over not being at your set winrate goal can easily make you play outside you br thinking.. "if i just win big one time at x level itll get my winrate up and make up for the losses.. Just play good and dont worry about the money

Scourrge said:

I really hope this is a curiosity question? You need to be focusing on how to make improvements to your game here and now, not how much money can be made at 1k NL.

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Yes Scourrge, of course it was out of curiosity, I would be happy enough to beat 25 maybe 50nl some day later on in my life. I was just wondering how much they are making.

domeburglar said:

IMO you shouldnt set a specific winrate goal.. I think you should just focus on playing good solid poker and making the right decisions.. Otherwise your gunna be constantly checking your winrate and if its not where u want it to be say after 1,000 hands it could easily tilt you..

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I forgot to add in the previous post, the reason why I was tilting (the lost hands were also a major factor which caused tilt) was because I had 2 tables open and PT4 open as well. I kept refreshing PT4 every single hand to check how much profit I have and win rate lol. As to the winrate goal it's not that I want to specifically have 1bb/100+ win rate it's just that I want to at least be a break even player after 10k hands or maybe 50k hands. Then I would be able to find why I'm not making money.


The next thing I'll try when I start playing in Jan will be firstly stacking tables as I find it is a bit harder to play but when you lose a big pot you don't notice it most of the time (Some advice on if a beginner should have 2 to 4 stacked tables compared to tiled tables would be helpful) I will not look at PT4 till the end of each day and I will try (although i've tried so many times) to leave the tables when I feel that I'm starting to tilt.


Thanks for the help guys

I think the tiled vs stacked tables is purely preference.. I personally like to tile because it helps me keep track of the action on the table.. its a lot easier for me to focus when i can see all the tables im playing.. but like i said i think this is more preference than anything

I used to tilt pretty bad when I got bad beats but I was so angry I closed all the tables and did something else until I calmed down.

domeburglar said:

I think the tiled vs stacked tables is purely preference.. I personally like to tile because it helps me keep track of the action on the table.. its a lot easier for me to focus when i can see all the tables im playing.. but like i said i think this is more preference than anything

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I understand but people usually say "beginners should play 1 or 2 tables and play all their hands as best as they can, look at opponents etc." so if I play stacked I won't be able to look at how they play hands etc. I personally don't mind but is it ok if I do so? Will I be missing out on much? I will most likely sacrifice some vital information but I will possibly beat tilt which is what I am aiming for.

Yoshimiii said:

I used to tilt pretty bad when I got bad beats but I was so angry I closed all the tables and did something else until I calmed down.

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I would like to do that. It's just hard for me to do so. I start tilting and then I just give up and don't feel like playing poker ever again and so I decide to blow my BR. Yeah, it's stupid.

DavidC17 said:

At this point I don't even think about making money in poker but I get so furious when donks float me with AK or AJ while i'm showing aggression and they hit that magic A on the river.

Can anyone give me any advice on controlling my emotions/tilt? This is something I've been working on for the past year which does show that it's really bad for me.

Click to expand...

It's hard to not get so mad when that sort of thing happens; however the thing you have to drum in to your head until it comes home is that; these are the only people you really make any money off..

This is exactly the reasons why people can be profitable in poker, because there are huge amounts of people who play for fun/gamble and to hit their magic ace or gut shot on the river.

I understand this; however I still get emotionally when playing sometimes; so I'm by no means an expert in it when it comes to dealing with emotional behaviors in the game.

However, what I can say is this;


What I have come to realize over the past couple of years playing is spewing money doesn't help. I, like you have donked of many of deposits after working so hard grinding up within the matter of minutes. I once took months and months grinding up a $20.00 roll in to like $1100? grinding MTT/SnG MTT's...I then for whatever reason went on a downswing/took some beats and took my remaining roll of around $800-$1k to heads up SnG's and played a few high stakes hyper heads up SNG's and lost it all within a matter of 30minutes, I was down to literally $10 or something and by the next day felt sick, mainly from the hard work I'd put in grinding had all gone to waste.

I had to again, grind up from 10cent/25cent SnG's and cash games to build a roll again.

It's just not worth it, put a note on your PC when playing reminding you of your feelings at the "tilt" point and then your feelings the following day after you decided to spew of your roll. You will then come to realize that, the later feeling of spewing your roll hurt far more than taking a few bad beats from the donkeys a few hours before.

Yeah, I'll have to wait till January and see if I have learn't anything new.

There's no magic pill that will solve your problem with tilt and make you a winning player. You already know about staying within your roll, but you don't do it. If you can train yourself to stop playing when you feel tilted (or even better, when you feel it coming on, before it's full-blown), that will obviously help reduce your losses.

Improving your emotional self-discipline so that you're more tilt-resistant would be far better. But that's far harder for most people, so it takes a lot longer, and progress can be glacier-like.

As mentioned above by another poster, emotion is very important.

its ok in life to hold strong views and emotions but when it comes to poker you really have to learn how to check it in at the door.

you can look at any chat during an online game and see everything from "u'r a donk" to "why did i get cheated, i was 4 to 1 favorite in the hand". these folks should find a different hobby.

once you come to grips with the natural nature of badbeats, your outlook will change and you learn to except it easier. afterall, i like to wager on baseball but i know going in that just because the yankees are a -240 favorite, with the best hr hitter on the team and the number one pitcher in the league starting, you still have to play the game.

.~`~.~`~. >')))`>
imafin ... Sandcrabs

Also even though much has been said.......sometime setting a limit for the day is good only allowing for u to lose so many bi's in a day can be vital just because your having a bad day one day doesnt mean you cant sleep and wake up and do it again the next day......i find it best to grab something to eat if i just lost a few buyins and then get back to it

Patience is never easy! nowing that an easy way to deal with tilt is just sit out a couple hands . emotions and poker DONT mix. It may work for Phil buts thats rare. Ive found online poker comes down alot of time with your starting mood sit down mad and you lose . I like to say breathe in the good breathe out the bad . lol

I have fixed my tilt. Believe it or not I have dpeosited and managed to play from yesterday 9pm till 4am and now I've been playing from 10 in the morning till now.

I have made big losses due to possibly playing badly at FR. I have switched to 6max to see how it's going and after 5 hands I'm 54bb/100 (I know it's not a big enough sample but I will get enough hands in by next week)

the profit+winrate could have been more but PT4 didn't record 3 of the last hands I played where I won over 200bb. I think I'm ready to make a challenge thread.

Thanks for all of your help. You have managed to help me within a couple of hours, much appreciated.

lol he fixed his tilt within a few hours haha....wow this guy must be good...

"I believe I am a good player"

I am yet to find a player, other than myself, that doesn't think this. I wonder if its true in your case

""I have been playing poker for just under a year and have lost quite a lot of money!"

Oh, no it isnt



And as for this:


"I have fixed my tilt."
"I have switched to 6max to see how it's going and after 5 hands I'm 54bb/100 (I know it's not a big enough sample but I will get enough hands in by next week)"


Sorry, but what player tilts when they are winning? I doubt you have fixed your underlying issues.

DavidC17 said:

I have fixed my tilt. Believe it or not I have dpeosited and managed to play from yesterday 9pm till 4am and now I've been playing from 10 in the morning till now.

I have made big losses due to possibly playing badly at FR. I have switched to 6max to see how it's going and after 5 hands I'm 54bb/100 (I know it's not a big enough sample but I will get enough hands in by next week)

the profit+winrate could have been more but PT4 didn't record 3 of the last hands I played where I won over 200bb. I think I'm ready to make a challenge thread.

Thanks for all of your help. You have managed to help me within a couple of hours, much appreciated.

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Oh dear, there's a lot wrong with this:
- Sorry, but no, you haven't fixed your tilt.
- 5 hands isn't just not a sample, it proves you are ridiculously results-oriented. Stop checking things. It won't be any better for you checking.
- It's good to make a challenge thread, just don't be disappointed if you're not crushing 100nl by next Wednesday.

It's a patience thing. U have to be patient enough to not make stupid calls like I did for a while. For instance, don't play A-rag unless you are in position. I generally play only the big blind hands for a while and then venture out as the game progresses.

Yoshimiii said:

I used to tilt pretty bad when I got bad beats but I was so angry I closed all the tables and did something else until I calmed down.

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That is what was said on the 4th post down.. Must have the will power to control your emotions. If your a person who can not control it then poker may not be the game for you. I understand that once and a while after a few bad beats maybe having a low stack in a tourney or something, but never in a cash game or for your whole BR. That is where the self control comes in. Also if you tilt easy then you should not be playing multiple tables. Play 1 game at a time taking a break when needed until you can gain the self control needed to play multiple tables.

Most peeps will tilt more online because of being on a computer. In a live game play, setting to your right might be Chuck Norris,Chuck Liddell.If either one of them see you tilting because they beat your pocket Aces with their 7 2 off suit preflop all in. Guarantee you'll be saying nh sir.lol

Feel the Chi like in the movie Heavyweights and you will be ok.

You can also try closing your eyes, tilting your head back, and opening up your jaw for 30 seconds. Supposedly this works for golfers and helps you forget what happened, read it in a golf magazine. I haven't tried this yet since I haven't played much lately but it seems like a good idea.