Calling raises with low ranking starting hands.

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pokerninja

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Hi All,
One thing I am always uncertain about is how to play lower ranking hands that are supposed to be playable from the late positions in holdem cash games. For instance Q8s in late position is playable but what do you do if someone raises ahead of you pre-flop. Do you call with such a hand or is it more prudent to fold when being raised with a lower ranking hand?
Any response is greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Rob
 
micromachine

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Q8s is borderline playable from LP in cash games, I'd open raise from the BTN only, to steal blinds from tight players in the blinds.

If someone has raised before you then fold, their range normally crushes Q8s.
 
benevg

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if you read more carefully, you will see that all the hand charts say "if the pot is unopened when it gets to you". the fact that you have a hand which may be "playable" to open with, does not mean it is good enough to call a raise from an earlier position. in fact, quite the opposite is true.

if you have the option, check out what sklansky has said about the gap concept in poker :)
 
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pokerninja

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if you read more carefully, you will see that all the hand charts say "if the pot is unopened when it gets to you". the fact that you have a hand which may be "playable" to open with, does not mean it is good enough to call a raise from an earlier position. in fact, quite the opposite is true.

if you have the option, check out what sklansky has said about the gap concept in poker :)
But for low pairs the strategy seems to be to call a raise up to 8bb in the hopes to make a set. that makes me winder about unsuited connecters such as 89. Would you fold those on a pre-flop raise as well?

Thanks,
Rob
 
Jblocher1

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I personally lay it down especially in tournaments. I feel like over time it's not a good play
 
aa88wildbill

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If he's tight fold. If these loose, try a small raise to see what happens. Hope this helps ninja.
 
IntenseHeat

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Q-8 shouldn't be in your calling range with a raise in front of you, even from late position. In fact, I might not call a raise even with hands that I might have raised with from mid or early position. A simpler way of stating this is that a hand that I might raise with is not necessarily the same hand that I'm going to be calling raises with.
 
micalupagoo

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fold pre, unless raiser is super loose aggressive-then reraise, especially if your image is tight

ppl really pay up tp 8x to setmine????
 
fletchdad

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It all depends....lol. Q8 is pretty much a fold to most(!) raises. The thing is, why are you doing anything. Ask yourself WHY, and if you dont have an answer, fold.

I will give you an example.

Tight player in MP raises 3x, you have ATC (any two cards) that are pretty much trash like Q8. You know this player will raise with Axs, any PP, most BW hands and highish SC, and he will 4 bet you with AK, AA-JJ and call with maybe 50% of his other hands, but you also know he will check when he misses the flop. You can 3 bet here with a plan of raising his checks OTF and folding to his 4 bet. Things like flop texture and other stuff must also be taken into consideration. You raise with a plan and you know why you are doing it, and how you will proceed. You need to be IP vs this guy to do this. From the blinds it is a 3 bet only if you really think you can get him to fold most of his hands, but Q8 from the blinds is pretty much just muck it now. But, it really all depends....... How I used to hate reading that, but it is sooooooo true.........

If you dont know WHY, folding is your friend.


EDIT: Calling with trash is almost never a good idea. Raise or fold.
 
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RamdeeBen

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I think a lot of it depends on your post flop game in position.

If you're competent playing post flop, much more so than the raiser & particular raiser is loose; then calling in position might be ok. However; in general folding with such hands is usually going to yield the most profit play.
 
fletchdad

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I think a lot of it depends on your post flop game in position.

If you're competent playing post flop, much more so than the raiser & particular raiser is loose; then calling in position might be ok. However; in general folding with such hands is usually going to yield the most profit play.


This has some merit, but since OP is asking whether or not to call with hands like this, I think we can assume his post flop play wont be all that advanced. No offense to OP. If your post flop play is not really advanced, putting pressure on you opponent to make him fold or define his hand pre is probably better, and folding trash is probably best.
 
Arjonius

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Easy fold. Even if you're a better than average post-flop player, there isn't a huge amount of EV getting into raised pots with modest very hands. So overall, the best case scenario is slightly increasing your profitability. I'd be very surprised if your game doesn't have multiple areas that are significantly more important to work on. Mine sure does,
 
PLAYINBIG

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I would fold .Someone in early position could easily have an Ace,any over card higher than my Q/8 or small pocket pair to beat my Q/8 on the flop.
 
PLAYINBIG

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It all depends....lol. Q8 is pretty much a fold to most(!) raises. The thing is, why are you doing anything. Ask yourself WHY, and if you dont have an answer, fold.

I will give you an example.

Tight player in MP raises 3x, you have ATC (any two cards) that are pretty much trash like Q8. You know this player will raise with Axs, any PP, most BW hands and highish SC, and he will 4 bet you with AK, AA-JJ and call with maybe 50% of his other hands, but you also know he will check when he misses the flop. You can 3 bet here with a plan of raising his checks OTF and folding to his 4 bet. Things like flop texture and other stuff must also be taken into consideration. You raise with a plan and you know why you are doing it, and how you will proceed. You need to be IP vs this guy to do this. From the blinds it is a 3 bet only if you really think you can get him to fold most of his hands, but Q8 from the blinds is pretty much just muck it now. But, it really all depends....... How I used to hate reading that, but it is sooooooo true.........

If you dont know WHY, folding is your friend.


EDIT: Calling with trash is almost never a good idea. Raise or fold.
Your exactly right I think "calling a raise with trash is never a good idea preflop,but if you decide to play trash then" Raise it" I would never just call the raise.If the player reraises preflop again it would be an instant fold for me.
 
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Beanfacekilla

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Q-8 suited is barely a playable hand, even in position. If you are thinking about calling a raise, you better be a fantastic postflop player. I would say fold that garbage Q-8 to any raise.

Tighten up and wait for better cards. Q-9 or Q-T would be a little better, but still behind most villain's raising ranges.
 
IWinUlose

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hands

I would fold with that hand as it is junk. A Q7 is know as the computer hand meaning it's nothing so Q8 is right there. If the raise wasn't that large and say I had 10-8s or J9s or Q9s I might call because they are good connectors and
suited being better in case of flush draw.
 
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ayrton

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Depends on the player and what type of game it is. If its the very late stages of a sit n go i might call if its a very loose player who i have seen raise to try and steal the pot often, then i would most likely call.
 
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what is the opponent's range? normally when the tourney is still in its beginning there is no chance for a call, later in the late period and a fish pushing may try to reraise once, but q8s is always not to good for a call ^^
 
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