Calculating Equity...(vs. random hands?)

vinnie said:

In equilab, you can enter a completely random hand. A pair of 8s (which would always be unsuited) is 69.16% against a completely random hand. The issue is that people don't call with completely random hands. I mean, you might have someone who plays every hand to the flop, but after that you probably need to start narrowing it down.

If you want, you can do this in equilab too. On the right, click on the pie graph after you enter a flop and/or turn. Then you can check which hands you think the opponent will continue with (pairs, flush draws, gutshots, overcards, sets, etc). You can take that back to the main screen, see how you do against that. Enter the next card, narrow the range more, etc.

I recommend playing around with it. It's very neat.

Click to expand...

vinnie said:

In equilab, you can enter a completely random hand. A pair of 8s (which would always be unsuited) is 69.16% against a completely random hand. The issue is that people don't call with completely random hands. I mean, you might have someone who plays every hand to the flop, but after that you probably need to start narrowing it down.

If you want, you can do this in equilab too. On the right, click on the pie graph after you enter a flop and/or turn. Then you can check which hands you think the opponent will continue with (pairs, flush draws, gutshots, overcards, sets, etc). You can take that back to the main screen, see how you do against that. Enter the next card, narrow the range more, etc.

I recommend playing around with it. It's very neat.

Click to expand...

Mdf1992 said:

Hi All!

Hope everyone is staying sane during these times.

I had a question about calculating the equity of my hands.

It seems that everywhere I look, how to calculate equity is explained with the same type of example, that being: if, for instance, you have a diamonds flush draw, you have 9 outs (since there are 2 diamonds in your hand and 2 on the flop), so that equals like 9*4=36% hand equity.

Okay, simple enough. And a cool rule.

But what I'm wondering, and what I've yet to find, is the equity of any other hand in poker.
It seems that all the examples only mention flush or straight draws etc. But like, what would my hand equity be with a pair of 8s unsuited, for instance, vs. a random range?

It seems that to use the equity calculators like equilab, etc., I need to type in specific ranges that I'm up against, but why can't I just type in a random range? Like how do i figure out hand equity of a pair, or hell even like an Ace with a 7 kicker, vs. a range of random hands?

Hm and I guess past the flop, I would need to learn to range my opponents to properly calculate my equity? Hm. I guess how can I learn to range my opponents also?

Hopefully this makes SOME sense and that you might be able to provide any insight at all would be appreciated! Thanks!

Cheers,
Mark

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vinnie said:

A standard range? Not really. It depends a lot on the player and the stakes.

We can assume most loose passive players (your recreational players) are calling with lots of Broadway cards, suited cards, Ax hands, and pairs. They probably raise KK-AA and maybe AK.

So maybe something like this:

[ 22-QQ
A2s+, K2s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+
A2o+, K9o+, QTo+ JTo]

Now this is a huge range. And maybe your opponent will not play all of these or will play more than this or would raise with many of these. It is an art. When someone calls and you see their hand at showdown, look at it and see if you can figure out their range.

If they show 7c4c, you can be pretty sure that they will play better suited hands.

If you have tracking software and can see their percentages, that also helps you figure out what they are likely to play.

Click to expand...

Collin Moshman said:

Vinnie is completely right in his answer.

There are no rules of thumb for this. 88 will have high equity on a lot of flops vs a lot of ranges, and low equity a lot of other times. So the closest you could come might be to say something like:

8 8 on 7 2 2 Rainbow

I put my opponent on a range of mostly random overcards so he has 6 outs twice for 24% equity and therefore I'm around 75%

8s 8c on Kh Qh Jh

My opponent almost always has at least a pair, sometimes a monster, and best case is a draw that's at least flipping against me. On balance I probably don't have much better than 2 outs drawing to a set, which would be 8% equity.

Click to expand...

vinnie said:

A standard range? Not really. It depends a lot on the player and the stakes.

We can assume most loose passive players (your recreational players) are calling with lots of Broadway cards, suited cards, Ax hands, and pairs. They probably raise KK-AA and maybe AK.

So maybe something like this:

[ 22-QQ
A2s+, K2s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+
A2o+, K9o+, QTo+ JTo]

Now this is a huge range. And maybe your opponent will not play all of these or will play more than this or would raise with many of these. It is an art. When someone calls and you see their hand at showdown, look at it and see if you can figure out their range.

If they show 7c4c, you can be pretty sure that they will play better suited hands.

If you have tracking software and can see their percentages, that also helps you figure out what they are likely to play.

Click to expand...

vinnie said:

A standard range? Not really. It depends a lot on the player and the stakes.

We can assume most loose passive players (your recreational players) are calling with lots of Broadway cards, suited cards, Ax hands, and pairs. They probably raise KK-AA and maybe AK.

So maybe something like this:

[ 22-QQ
A2s+, K2s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+
A2o+, K9o+, QTo+ JTo]

Now this is a huge range. And maybe your opponent will not play all of these or will play more than this or would raise with many of these. It is an art. When someone calls and you see their hand at showdown, look at it and see if you can figure out their range.

If they show 7c4c, you can be pretty sure that they will play better suited hands.

If you have tracking software and can see their percentages, that also helps you figure out what they are likely to play.

Click to expand...

vinnie said:

You're not at all annoying. I love this kind of stuff and enjoy talking about it. There are also charts for calling raises and three bets there. Those can give you an idea of where to start when building a range for people. Just remember that your opponent doesn't necessarily need to follow those charts. I didn't mention those because I forgot if I had downloaded them separately. I guess not, they must come with it. Equilab is amazing for what it does for free.

The more you play and develop ranges for the stakes and sites you are playing at, the better idea you will have of the ranges. Those charts are a good place to start adjusting.

Click to expand...

Collin Moshman said:

Vinnie is completely right in his answer.

There are no rules of thumb for this. 88 will have high equity on a lot of flops vs a lot of ranges, and low equity a lot of other times. So the closest you could come might be to say something like:

8 8 on 7 2 2 Rainbow

I put my opponent on a range of mostly random overcards so he has 6 outs twice for 24% equity and therefore I'm around 75%

8s 8c on Kh Qh Jh

My opponent almost always has at least a pair, sometimes a monster, and best case is a draw that's at least flipping against me. On balance I probably don't have much better than 2 outs drawing to a set, which would be 8% equity.

Click to expand...